Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: On this episode, Norm and I are reunited as I was pressed into duty or extra duty or something like that. So what exactly do we have here, you ask? How about a Norm Nathan show from February 4, 1994? Great. I'm happy you all agree. The title of this one is Just Clowning Around. That's because our guest for a portion of the broadcast was Steve Smith, also known as TJ Tatters from the Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus Clown College. They were going to be holding auditions in Boston at the time. Now, I would put this one in the Best of norm category. Truthfully, 98% of his shows fall under that heading. But there's just something extra sweet about this one. Now, in addition to that fun, we take some great calls. We hear from Marie, Brian, Fred from Medford talking about Sherm Feller and John Kiley and clowns, Our good friend Helene and Belmont Everett, who tells some interesting stories about his dad and Joe in Vero Beach, Florida, formerly from Weymouth, Mass. Oh, that's right. There's one more caller. He talks about hilarious potato loving, vodka drinking Russian clowns visiting and staying at his house when he was younger. Now, the call ends before he finishes, but we do get some excellent stories. Episode 222 just clung around. Honks its way to your ears now.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Which kind of fits in with your whole act.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: Yes, it does. And that's why I feel right at home, Norm. I mean, I feel like I'm with a kindred spirit.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: You've been with Barnum and Bailey Circus for a long time now.
[00:01:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I went to clown College back in 1971 and have been wearing a rubber nose ever since.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Big floppy shoes and a funny little red wig and stuff.
[00:01:50] Speaker C: And you got it.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: A little painted face. Oh, I'm just turned on by this. No, it sounds like a great deal of fun. What got you into this area?
[00:01:58] Speaker C: Well, actually, I did not grow up wanting to be in a circus. My boyhood heroes were Rocky and Bullwinkle, Soupy Sayles, Jonathan Winters, Buster Keaton. I wanted to be in vaudeville, and unfortunately, there was no more vaudeville to be in.
By accident, I found out that Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus ran a school where you could learn how to throw a pie in someone's face. I said that for me, and that's what I've been doing.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: It's interesting, the people that you mentioned as being idols of yours, Rocky and Bullwinkle, and you said Buster Keaton, Buster.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: Keaton, Soupy Sales, Jonathan Winters, all the Warner Brothers Cartoons. But especially the work by Chuck Jones, My Faith.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Because you're talking about really great performers, all of them.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: Yes, I think so.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: So your taste was. Has been great right from the very, very beginning.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: Yes, of course, Norm.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Yes, of course, Norm, whatever you. Whatever you do, I want to talk just like you, because I want to be. Maybe it's not too late for me to be a clown.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: I don't think so.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Maybe I have been one all these years and I have not dared admit it.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: I have an honorary nose for you, Norm. So if you. Don't worry, you can fill these shoes.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: You have a BFA that is a Bachelor of Fine Arts and you have put on all kinds of productions through the years.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Yes, I have.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Aside from. I mean, is that. Aside from the Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus?
[00:03:29] Speaker C: Yeah. This is my fourth time back with the circus.
Believe it or not. There is a high burnout level with the circus world. And when it gets to be too much, I say, gotta go now. And they usually say, okay, but call us when you're ready to come back. And I've been very fortunate to go off and do other things. I worked in television and film and theater, and I keep coming back to this because circus really is one of the last forums for physical comedy. You know, there are a lot of comedy clubs in this country, but they give you the space about the size of a coffee table on the stage, not conducive to slipping on a banana peel. If you want to be a practitioner of physical comedy, circus really is the last place to do it.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Your life sounds quite fascinating. I know you. According to some information I have, you did a variety show, a children's variety show in Chicago, and you won a number of Emmys and all that kind of stuff. You're really something special. And now what are you doing? You're going around the country looking for clowns to join the Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus?
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Norm, we are in Boston looking for a few good clowns.
We were gonna go to City hall, but we thought, no, no, no, let's.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Instead, hey, that was a political riposte, or whatever they call it.
[00:04:56] Speaker C: Well, who am I to say? But we're gonna hold auditions. They're open auditions. So anyone who has ever had the feeling that they wanted to run away from home and join the circus should come check this out. It's gonna be held Tomorrow or today, 1:00 in the afternoon at the Holiday Inn Government Center. And you don't have to come with any prepared material. We're just looking for people who are serious about being s. Okay, now how.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: Do you tell, huh? Say I say somebody comes before you and auditioning, they don't have any prepared material. How can you tell whether or not they might be a potential to be a clown?
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Well, I'm going to put them through a series of physical improv situations. I may ask them to pretend that they're a piece of popcorn popping. I may ask them to pretend they're a piece of bacon frying. I want to see how fertile their imaginations are and how willing they are to look stupid in front of a whole ass of people.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: And that will do it. How long do these auditions take? Assuming you've got somebody there that you think is has real great potential.
[00:06:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: How long would it take him or her? And I assume you're talking women too now.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Oh, sure.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Are there many women clowns?
[00:06:12] Speaker C: Yes. And, and the proportion is about 70% men, 30% women. And that has been a ratio since clown college started back in 1968. Although women have always been a part of the clowning world, at the turn of the century there was a very famous female clown. Her name was Rose Hanlon. But because a lot of the men clowns dressed in drag, you couldn't tell the difference. I think this would be a great Geraldo show. I don't know.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: It would be. It would be.
Anyway, now this person has impressed you.
You say be look like the lead in a pencil. And whatever kind of test you put this person through, what happens next?
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Okay, the audition is just the first step. The next step is to fill out the application form. The application is a six page, really a personality quiz. And we don't ask the usual questions. We don't ask what your grade point average is or was. Don't really care. We ask questions like when was the last time you cried?
What's your favorite book? Tell me five movies you would go see again. Do you really like children? And be honest about that.
I want to know stuff about the human being that tells me an awful lot.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Okay, now they passed this test.
[00:07:34] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Now when are they admitted to the clown college? Are they at this point or are there more tests for them to take?
[00:07:42] Speaker C: Well, every year we receive a about 2,000 applications. From that we take a class of 30 students. Those 30 students go through an eight week intensive program in physical comedy. At the end of that program, about a third of the class 10 people are awarded a one year performance contract to travel with one of the two traveling units of Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus. So, as ridiculous as it sounds, we are serious about this and we are looking for people who want to make comedy their life.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: It sounds like a great deal of fun. And do they have to call you in advance or just show up at the Holiday Inn?
[00:08:24] Speaker C: Just show up. There's no prerequisite. All we ask is that you have the seed of silliness and come prepared to be silly.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Do you have a lot of the clowns that work for Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus? Have they been with the circus for a very long time? It seems to me there can't be too much of a turnover, is there?
[00:08:41] Speaker C: Well, actually, there is.
As a matter of fact, in this month's issue of Reader's Digest. Don't know if we can say that on the air, but there's an article about Lou Jacobs, who was with Ringling brothers for over 60 years. He was the last of his kind. I don't think we'll ever see that era again. Today's performers, at least with Ringling Brothers Circus, stay three to five years, and that's the lifespan and past that you don't have to people who stay too long. I'm an exception in that rule. But like I said, this is my fourth time back.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: That's right, because you were talking about burnout, so that obviously happens to other clowns.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: Well, it's just that this is the kind of job that you can't call it in. In other words, a six year old knows when you're being condescending. The worst thing you can do as a magical character like a clown is to come up with a fake voice and go, hi, boys and girls, how are you? Because they know that's crap and you can't fool them. So you have to be willing to give it 100% every single day. And after a while, it takes its toll.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: I just wondered, though, assuming somebody makes it all away.
[00:09:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Do you help with the makeup? Well, this is what they learn, I guess, don't they, while they're going to clown college? The makeup and the bits and that kind of stuff, Is that part of it?
[00:10:05] Speaker C: Yeah. The curriculum includes classes in acrobatics and gymnastics. In other words, in order to learn how to fall without getting hurt, you have to learn how to do it correctly. So you have to know how to tumble, you have to know how to fall.
Juggling, unicycle riding, stilt walking, pantomime improvisation.
We study the films of Chaplin, Keaton, Laurel and Hardy. We watch all of the Warner Brothers cartoons. We have classes in circus history. Clown history, to give people a basic background. Makeup, of course, is very important. It's sort of like learning how to finger paint on your face until you find the right eyebrows, the right mouth, the right nose.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Oh, that sounds fantastic. Now, where is this clown college?
[00:10:53] Speaker C: Well, for the first 25 years, we were located in Venice, Florida, which was the winter quarters for Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus. Then last year, an interesting thing happened. Because of bad railroad tracks and bad politics, we had to get out of Venice, Florida.
We thought it was a logical move to go to Baraboo, Wisconsin. It was the original home of the Ringling Brothers. It is the home of the Circus World Museum. On 55 acres. They have displays of historical circus wagons and all kind of memorabilia. But it offers us a chance to have a campus where our students can learn.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Okay. Now, I was.
I was down in Orlando, Florida, a few years ago. There was a place they called Circus World.
[00:11:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Was that connected with you guys at all?
[00:11:46] Speaker C: It sure was. Irvenfeld, the man who bought Ringling Brothers, Barham and Bailey Circus back in 1967, the man who founded Clown College in 1968, came up with this idea for Circus World. And it was an amusement park, 600 acres in Orlando became the home of this place. Unfortunately, it did not work out the way he envisioned it. I think what he was going for was to eventually have a circus university where you would teach not only the clowning skills, but also high wire acts, animal acts, and everything connected with the circus.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: I remember having been down there, they talked about this sort of being a kind of a basic small setup. They did have a lot of land, and they were talking about expanding it almost to a.
If not Disney World, but something, you know, much more elaborate than what they had. I feel badly that it didn't work out because that's a beautiful part of Florida with the SeaWorld nearby and all the other things in that central part of Florida. Anyway, obviously. Is that gone totally now?
[00:12:53] Speaker C: That's gone totally. Yeah. That does no longer exist.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: I will not go down there again looking for it. And I feel just so darn bad.
[00:12:59] Speaker C: Because it won't be there, Norm.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. So again, for people who would like to take the audition, just show up at the Holiday Inn at Government center.
[00:13:10] Speaker C: Right on 1:00 this afternoon.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: 1:00.
[00:13:15] Speaker C: Please don't come wearing a rubber nose.
We want to see you as a human being first. And come wearing clothes that you can move around in because of all the silly things that they're going to put you through, but come with the serious intent that you want to make people happy because that's the most important aspect. Our requirements are real simple. You have to be 17 years old, you have to be a high school graduate and you have to have a heart the size of Alaska.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Oh, I can tell that you fit those qualifications. Right. Especially that last part.
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Thanks.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Hey, good luck to you, Steve Smith. I really appreciate you coming out talking about that. I hope a lot of people show up and hope even more than that, I hope you get some great prospects. Wouldn't be nice if somebody listening to this program right this very moment ended up as a clown. And they said, I heard it on Norm Nathan's program and that's the way my career started.
[00:14:05] Speaker C: And Norm, we'll let you know. Okay. And I'd love to stay on with you warm, but my elephant is double parked out front and the meter maid is wearing galoshes. So, you know, I gotta go.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Okay, Steve, thanks a million. Good luck to you. Thanks for being on.
[00:14:17] Speaker C: Bye bye.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Bye bye. Steve Smith.
You think that's his real name or is that his clown name? Nobody's named Steve Smith, are they?
Oh yes, that's right, his clown name. His clown name is TJ Tatters. Hold on a minute. But a long. No, I just hasn't been a long time since I've.
I've done this in your ear because a lot of people get turned on my fluttering of paper. Yeah, he was not. Oh, see. Known as TJ Tatters.
Anyway, an interesting man, Stephen Smith. So if you want to. If you want to be part of that whole world, it sounds like a great experience, even if you only do it for five years. It seems to me it's the kind of experience that you just never going to forget. Did I tell you Tony Nesbitt is our producer? Today we're reunited after all this time and Tony. Thank you very much, Tony. Will, it's kind of funny because Tony puts on the sound effects records too. And he's putting on the sound effect records of people cheering his name. There seems to be something kind of strange about. Anyway, let's take some phone calls. What do you say? 254-1030 Area code is 617-254-1030 Area code 617. We do keep things a little bit light here because we feel that David Brudnoi has gone through all the really serious, important stuff. Therefore, I will take care of the other end of things. Hi, Marie. Hello, Marie.
[00:15:46] Speaker E: I listen to you all the Time.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: What a nice person you are.
[00:15:49] Speaker E: And I really get so much entertainment, and I feel so much at home with your program and. Oh, it really keeps my spirits right up there.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Well, that's very nice. You're okay there, Marie.
[00:16:01] Speaker E: The reason why I called is because I was thrilled to hear that clown that you just had that just spoke about the Barnum and Daily Circus.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: You want to be. You want to be a clown?
[00:16:12] Speaker E: Oh, there's nothing like a clown.
Oh, they're the greatest.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Would you like to. Would you like to run away with the circus and be a clown for a while? I would.
[00:16:22] Speaker E: I didn't mind at all. I Wish I was 16 again.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you have to be, actually. Have to be 17.
[00:16:32] Speaker E: But the reason I called on is because I was in show business all my life, most of my life, really.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: Doing what?
[00:16:39] Speaker E: What was I doing?
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:16:41] Speaker E: Well, I was a chorus girl, a showgirl, really.
[00:16:45] Speaker D: A stripper.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: You were a stripper?
[00:16:48] Speaker E: I was all right. To keep going and keep earning money and to be in the business.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: And where did you do all this?
[00:16:56] Speaker E: Oh, God. Locally and From Montreal, Florida.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Well, where locally were you? In Scolly Square and that kind of stuff?
[00:17:03] Speaker E: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Burlesque.
[00:17:05] Speaker F: Portugal, nightclubs.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Where did you appear in Boston?
[00:17:09] Speaker E: The old theater, the Columbia Theater.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Oh, the old burlesque houses.
[00:17:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:15] Speaker E: And the Gaiety.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Oh, did you ever make the Old Howard?
[00:17:20] Speaker E: No, but I had gone there to see the show.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: It's kind of interesting because at one point, there were a number of burlesque houses in Boston. You mentioned a few of them. Most people, when they think of burlesque, think mostly of the Old Howard and maybe the Casino, which was in existence at that time. But there were all those others that you're talking about, and you were there.
[00:17:42] Speaker E: The first one was Minsky's, which they call the Park Theater on Washington Street. And that was when I. The first.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: You know, there was a Minsky's here in Boston.
[00:17:53] Speaker E: Yeah, The Pasta Yida.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Really?
[00:17:55] Speaker E: Across from the Arkay O'Keeffe.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: I didn't know that.
[00:17:58] Speaker E: And it was Minsky.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Speaker E: And I worked with so many beautiful comedians, like Red Buttons.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Red Buttons. You worked with him?
[00:18:08] Speaker E: Yeah. Wonderful.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: That's right. There were a lot of interesting people who were part of burlesque back in those days.
So you go back a bit. What year were you talking. Talking about now?
[00:18:19] Speaker E: Oh, I started in 1935. I was 15 years old.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, can you hold on and we'll talk on the other side of the news? Would you mind that.
[00:18:28] Speaker E: No, not at all.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: She does, doesn't she?
And you do too. She's probably saying the same thing about you. But Brian, boy, does he sound hot.
[00:18:39] Speaker G: I tell you, that program, you know, that's all it was, all about. The clowns.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:43] Speaker G: I've always wanted to be a clown.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: What? You ought to show up at the Holiday Inn in the morning.
[00:18:48] Speaker G: I. I can't do Pratt Falls anymore. I never passed the test.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Okay. I guess it's not the morning, it's the afternoon. One o'clock at the. At Government Center. That Holiday Inn, I think.
[00:18:59] Speaker G: You know, I saw Emma Kelly's last performance on television.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:03] Speaker G: Back in the 50s. I'll never forget that.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: So you really did want to be a circus clown. I guess everybody sort of wants to be there. I would have liked to been a. A trapeze star, you know, in great shape, working with beautiful women, both of us wearing lovely looking tights, stuff. Except I can't even walk into a room without tripping. So I think my life would have been in great peril had I ever swung from a trapeze bar. I can hear, I can hear myself going, whoops. A whole lot.
[00:19:33] Speaker G: I tell you, I had an experience that out of Hawkpin when I was a kid. The circus came to town, as I say, and it came down to the ball field. And back then it was surrounded all by woods and we camped out. We were probably about 8 or 9 years old, you know, when it was safe back then to camp out. And we watched the elephants pull up the tent, the main post, the mast.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: It's kind of fun to watch the circus set up like that with tents and all of that kind of business.
[00:20:05] Speaker G: Well, this is at night. They had a spotlight on it.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:08] Speaker G: And in the morning we walked to the canteen and the people were there who put up the tent. They invited us to breakfast and they were the clowns and you know, the performers.
It was wonderful.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: It sounds lovely. And you almost ran away at that moment to join the circus. You could have joined the circus then. What would you have done at that point? You clean up after the elephants.
[00:20:35] Speaker G: I'll do anything.
It is an amazing thing.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: You see now it's kind of. It's kind of sad because now you're looking back at that as during that period as an opportunity missed. I'm sorry that you didn't investigate it more.
[00:20:50] Speaker G: Well, I care for my parents. I don't think. I don't know why.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Okay.
It started to dawn upon me, what have you done? What has been your main Occupation? All these years?
[00:21:03] Speaker G: I do science.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: What do you mean you do science?
[00:21:07] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: What? Now that means what? I mean, I know what science means.
[00:21:12] Speaker G: Oh, physics.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: You do physics?
[00:21:15] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Well, that could lead to some very bad jokes. Do you teach physics?
[00:21:20] Speaker G: I didn't say physics.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: You work in. You work in a laboratory or.
[00:21:25] Speaker G: I sort of consult.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Oh, you consult people on physics?
[00:21:29] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:31] Speaker G: I've been doing it since I've been a child.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Okay. You still do it?
[00:21:36] Speaker G: Oh, yeah. I'm sort of burnt out after solving a certain problem which I don't wish to discuss, but I. I haven't been really productive in about a month.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
Well, we'll sit back and wait till you're productive again and then call me. Cause I can't stand talking to unproductive people.
[00:21:56] Speaker G: But still, if I. If I could, I'd be there at 1:00 tomorrow.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:22:01] Speaker G: I think I'd have to push you out of the way.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: I think. Kind of fun. Maybe you just want to show up and watch the others.
[00:22:07] Speaker G: Yeah. Well, nice talking to you, Dom.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: Hey, thanks a lot, Brian.
[00:22:11] Speaker F: Take care.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Take care, you. You too.
Okay. You're tuned to wbc. It's kind of quiet us if you.
[00:22:18] Speaker H: Go to the Sherm Feller funeral.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: No, I did not.
[00:22:22] Speaker H: Now I want to ask. You also did. Now, he was that deep throaty voice behind the announcing at Fenway park, am I right?
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Well, he. Yes, he. I don't. I don't know whether you describe his voice quite like that, but he. Yes, he did do the public address system at Fenway park for a lot of years.
[00:22:39] Speaker H: He wasn't the guy that played the organ.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: That was John Kiley at one point. John died a while back. But John. John Kiley played the organ. There's somebody else who's playing it now. But it was John Kiley. And then Schoenfeld did the pa.
[00:22:55] Speaker H: It sounds like the same organ that they're using though, even though there might be a different.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure it's the same organ. I'm sure it is. I don't think John came in and, you know, carried his organ in every day. Then when he left, he pardoned the expression, I sound like the. Bob had trial again. And indeed didn't take the organ out with him and take it home. No, it belongs to Fenway Perrigan. It's the same organ. That's. I don't care to discuss this one moment further.
[00:23:18] Speaker H: I just got that. Okay. As well, you know, with that guy, with the clown. That clown guy. It's interesting because I went to Tussle, of course, and Tussle's an entire hall named after P.T. barnum.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: Now they have an entire hall.
[00:23:32] Speaker H: Yeah, a building.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. They call the Tufts football team, don't they, The Jumbos, which was the name of the elephant that Peachy Barnum had paraded around.
[00:23:43] Speaker H: Believe it or not, Jumbo's tail is in the reserve part of the library.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Well, son of a gun, I did not know that. That's a dramatic new discovery.
[00:23:52] Speaker H: And they had a. Jumbo was stuffed for many years in Barnum Hall. But I guess when it burned down and they rebuilt it, he was destroyed in the fire. They managed to save the tail and preserve it in the archives.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: Now, it was it. What is it called? Jumbo Hall. Is that what you said?
[00:24:07] Speaker H: Barnum Hall.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: Oh, Barnum Hall.
[00:24:08] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Oh, I guess that would make sense.
Well, I did not know that.
[00:24:13] Speaker H: You know, there was also a. Remember that movie they had about two years ago with Bobcat Goldway? It's called Shakes the Clown.
I guess a lot of clowns were really up in arms about it because I don't.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: I don't recall that.
[00:24:25] Speaker H: No, it pictured. The main character was a sort of a womanizing clown. And a lot of clowns got up in arms about it. And I guess they helped the film to successfully bomb. I would have loved to have asked him about that.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Well, there have been a number of movies have. Not about clowns that have turned evil, you know, with that evil laugh and turned bad, you know, that seems to be horror movies.
[00:24:48] Speaker H: Yeah.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Some horror movies, you know, utilize. What's the connection of P.T. barnum with Tufts, though? What was. Did he.
[00:24:54] Speaker H: He was a founding contributor and such.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Was he was. Because he was not from around here, was he?
[00:25:00] Speaker H: No, no.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: It just seemed to light tufts somewhere along the line. Maybe he had his teeth cleaned at the dental school and said, well, I must give. Well, maybe, maybe not. I don't care to pursue that.
[00:25:10] Speaker H: That's. In fact, it's interesting you were just talking about strippers because the test dental school is located near what you might call what is the remnant of the combat zone.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:21] Speaker H: The students down there call it, I believe, the Combat Zone School.
But Barnum hall is on the metric.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Well, that's the way students are. They get very silly.
[00:25:32] Speaker H: You know, Norm, as I've said, as I've told you in the past, sometimes I tape parts of your show and so on. And when I play back tapes of you talking with Robert from Everett, I Swear, some of my family thinks that you two have an act going on and that you're actually a friend of his.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Yeah, some people think that. It's not true. I mean, it's simply. It's not true at all. When I say I can't stand him, I really mean that. But some people think that.
[00:25:58] Speaker H: I know enough.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: I mean, even. Even there are people who seem to like when we talk together because they, like, hear me get ag. Aggravated.
[00:26:05] Speaker H: But, yeah, he.
Some people have said they think you're a little too hard on him. I just thought I'd.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: I know that. I hear people say that, too, but they. They don't sit here and listen to him babble on in a stupid way year after year. Otherwise they wouldn't feel that way. Anyway, I gotta get going, Fred, but I thank you very much for the call.
It's.
You don't care what time it is. We have the whole night to ourselves. What the heck? And we have my friend Helene. So what more do we need? Maybe. Maybe a glass of some vintage wine, a little candlelight, and that would. What else? What else do I ask for?
[00:26:40] Speaker I: Nothing else, really. Yeah, I would like that, too. And again, I rushed in to rush to the rescue when I heard you say all the lines were open, but I really wanted to hear Tony's voice again.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah, Tony's. Tony's. They're pressed him into service for tonight. First time we worked together in a while.
Although he hangs around and is a pest on other nights when he's not actually on duty.
[00:27:06] Speaker I: You know, I was interested in the clown, hearing the clown, because I had a rather weird situation when my oldest son was little.
He was terrified of them. I wonder how common that is.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: I think. I think there are kids terrified of not only clowns, but I think there are some who are terrified of Santa Claus, of anybody who looks. Looks unusual. I. I think it can be frightening to a kid.
[00:27:33] Speaker I: Well, Tom was very much that way. He's now, by the way, a grown man, married, a physician, a father. He's got over it.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Thank heavens for that. Thank heavens. It wasn't a permanent thing, but.
[00:27:48] Speaker I: But I took him. When we were living in Los Angeles, there was a turnabout theater on La Cienega which had a children's performance. And I took him when he was about 3, and he climbed onto my lap and I said, what's the matter? He said, I'm afraid the clown is going to come down off the stage.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: And bite me and bite him.
[00:28:15] Speaker I: And after that, it got worse and worse. He couldn't even look at a picture of one.
He came home from a birthday party because there was a clown there. He came home in hysterics. But he was like that about odd looking people. I had to take him out of a supermarket once in hysterics because there was some nuns in full habit there.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: So anybody was a little. Looked a little unusual or different than he was used to. I can understand the clown thing. It seems to me that I think a lot of kids are afraid of clowns. Clowns are okay if they perform away from you. But as soon as they come close and want to bring you into the act. I think little kids do tend to panic a little bit. Maybe that's just maybe a terrible thing to say.
[00:29:03] Speaker I: Well, he was very sensitive to odd appearances.
And once my husband and I were invited to a Halloween party.
And my husband went as the Grim Reaper. He had a black hood and a garden implement.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Oh, the scythe. The scythe, yeah.
[00:29:27] Speaker I: And I went as a corpse. I had a white nightgown and I had some old stage makeup. Clown white, as a matter of fact. And I used blue eyeshadow for lipstick. And powdered my hair, which had not yet gone white. And we had a sitter and went to say goodnight to the children.
And Tom had to be taken off in hysterics again. While the younger child, who was two years younger, said Good night, Mommy, good night, Daddy. As if we always looked that way.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: That's kind of funny. Did you scare anybody at the party?
[00:30:08] Speaker I: No. The only thing that happened was it was still light when we went. And at a stoplight we almost caused an automobile accident with a car next to us looking over.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: That's kind of funny. I've never really had the kind of imagination that would tell me what kind of an outfit to wear at a costume party. So I'd never gone to a costume party because of that. Because I feel like I'd fall short. So I admire your ingenuity and your creativity.
Most people don't come up with much. Much that's, I guess, not terribly rich. I don't think I've ever been to a costume party.
[00:30:47] Speaker I: Years ago, not too many years ago up here, I had a couple. The woman was English and she always had a Twelfth Night party.
Because that was traditionally Mummer's Night and had to do with theater. And we all had to wear costumes that had to do with a character in a play. Or a name of a play was a theme.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Oh, that sounds like fun.
[00:31:14] Speaker I: Oh, I know two of my Best, I must tell you, one was.
And my younger son, who is a designer, is good at making things. He made a headstone out of cardboard that said rip. And I had it tied to my behind with a piece of string and went as dead end.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Oh, that's, That's. That's funny.
It reminds me. Somebody. Somebody once had given me a pipe, was in a. In the shape of a toilet bowl. I was doing a music. Let's see, what was the name of that program? One of the early programs I did way, way back when I was just beginning in radio was at night always called. Yep, Music at Day's End. Now, before I had come to that station, at the. Another station I worked at, they changed my name.
They didn't like Norm. Nathan. Nathan. Part they didn't like, so they changed it to Norman Day.
See, so now here's the. Here's the. You're getting the whole picture of this. Here's the pipe in the shape of a. Of a toilet bowl. And on the bottom of it, pasted, there is a little note that says day's End.
So I thought, I don't know, that's sort of similar to what you were saying in a kind of convoluted way. But I thought that was kind of clever. There was Heinie Ginsberg who did that. I wonder if he still remembers it. That's Woo. Woo Ginsburg. You wear that name vaguely.
[00:32:40] Speaker I: Vaguely.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: He used to play terrible music on rock music back in the 50s and 60s.
[00:32:45] Speaker I: I guess that's why I don't remember too clearly.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:32:50] Speaker I: But one other costume, which I think you might enjoy hearing about. I got some branches of an elm tree from the garden. My designer son, who happened to be around, made them in a hairdresser shape of a headdress. And I took the issue of the Harvard Lampoon, which lampooned the cosmopolitan centerfold of Burt Reynolds, only they had a nude centerfold of Henry Kissinger. Of course, they used Henry Kissinger's head on another body, a certain part of it camouflaged with a hand and the September morn approach.
And during the costume parade, I went about with the headdress made of the wood and looked lustfully at Henry Kissinger on the centerfold, which was Desire under the Elms.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Now, you know, that's clever.
[00:33:57] Speaker I: But I. I like those things. I found they were.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: Now, I. I know. I think if you have a theme like that that's kind of fun, maybe we kids in the teen cantina in the future can have a costume party like that and pick some theme and we'll have just so darn much fun.
[00:34:13] Speaker I: Oh, I think you should.
I really do. Anyway, it was lovely talking to Tony again. And it's always lovely talking to you.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: It's lovely talking to you too, Helene. Thanks a lot.
[00:34:23] Speaker I: Good night.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Bye. Bye. Okay, it's about two minutes before 1:00. We'll take some more calls after the news. Okay?
Broadway. Yes, sir. Oh, yeah. Anyway, we're gonna dance our way into the news.
I love singing and dancing my way into your hearts. What the hell's the matter with me? Well, why do I always act just so darn silly? I'm doing. I'm really doing boring stuff today.
[00:34:50] Speaker D: Oh, no, you're cooking with gas. When you're ready to take off your shoes and stockings, walk in the woods, leap year.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's what we all ought.
[00:34:58] Speaker D: To be cooking with gas. I don't know, Norman.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: I wouldn't be bored with that, you know, taking off my shoes and walking barefoot through the woods.
[00:35:04] Speaker D: I hope you've got good insurance policy.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Why is that, Everett? Why. Why do you talk insurance policies when I'm talking romance and.
[00:35:12] Speaker D: Yeah, but what happens if you get the flu? Well, you could be.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: Oh, I don't care to hear about flus. Every. I'm talking about walking with a beautiful woman through the woods.
[00:35:22] Speaker D: Well, that's. That's the best caregiver.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: And you're talking flu and you're talking insurance. You must be an old guy to.
[00:35:28] Speaker D: Be taking those kind of.39 next month.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Okay? Ever. You even do bad jokes.
[00:35:35] Speaker D: I'm a poop, that's all.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: Yeah, you're really a poop. I'm not going to invite you to my next show.
[00:35:39] Speaker D: You've got good memories tonight. To listen to the clown on the radio.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of people have said they enjoy that clown guy.
[00:35:46] Speaker D: My father used to be in the ring. And brother Circus.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Really Doing what?
[00:35:51] Speaker D: He started as a trooper.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: What does that mean?
[00:35:54] Speaker D: He put up the big tent. He took care of the elephants.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: Really?
[00:35:58] Speaker D: And he kept the guy's hair. He took care of a Gene Autry horse.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Really?
[00:36:04] Speaker D: Yeah. He used to comb him and brush him. They feed him.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: What was the name of Gene Autry's horse? There's a trivia question.
[00:36:10] Speaker D: I don't remember that name. I forgot. Now my memory lost a little. Better.
Good memory. I'm not as good as I used to be.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: Were you ever really good at just using that as an excuse?
[00:36:23] Speaker D: No, no, no. I remember Roy Roger was Traeger that's right, yeah.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: Gene Autry.
Yeah. When we get bogged down trying to think of Gene Autry's horse, no wonder this has become a terribly boring program.
[00:36:40] Speaker D: You know, Norm, my father, knight after night, used to tell us about the circus. When we were living in Canada. We were kids, and he tell us how to travel. You did? From one city to another, three days. One city, next day, put up the tent and you have to all get together, eat.
When they have a wedding, the circus, they cook a big pig and everything. Everybody's into the wedding.
And the gypsies sometimes used to get married young, 13 years old, they used to have a big reception.
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Somebody means some of the circus people got married at 13.
[00:37:17] Speaker D: That's right. That's right.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you. How did. Did you father meet your mother at the circus?
[00:37:22] Speaker D: No, my father left the circus and then he. After five years, then he joined the carnival and he left that. He got a little bit.
Then he did two, three years of hobo going from one train to another, traveled to the state.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: What an interesting man.
[00:37:37] Speaker D: Yeah. And then he got himself a good education at Michigan University. Then he worked for Henry Ford.
Then he was transferred to Canada to build airplanes at Logan made Dovao Airport.
Wait a minute now.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: 10 seconds.
[00:38:01] Speaker D: 10 seconds over.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Yeah. 10 seconds to think of the answer. Otherwise you'll lose the prize.
[00:38:05] Speaker D: He worked for a big place, Canada Aircraft in Montreal. Canadie Aircraft. He worked there for years. My brother was an electrician and my other uncles were born.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Did you ever sit down and talk with your father about his experience? He sounds like an interesting man.
[00:38:19] Speaker D: His mother and father were born in Quebec. My father was born low. Massachusetts.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: No, but did you ever sit down and actually talk with him about his experiences?
[00:38:26] Speaker D: Oh, yes. He talked about experience in the circus and he told us a lot about it. You see, I kind of clowned too. You was a clown? Sometimes, yeah.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: No, because he sounds like a very interesting man.
[00:38:37] Speaker D: He was a wonderful interesting man. And he was very good heart.
And you get to be a good heart to work in the circus. I guess everybody love each other and we're a happy family.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:49] Speaker D: I wish I was young because I would go with the circus. When I was a young kid, he took me to the Ring and Brothers Circus. To me it was a big, amazing thing. It was a big tent. Then they didn't play the garden. They pray under a big tent.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's.
[00:39:05] Speaker D: And he told me at the end of the year they used to meet in Florida. They used to all gather together in the winter in Florida.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:12] Speaker D: And I think he was there when he had won the train accidents, if I'm not wrong.
Yeah. And he said there was a lot of tragedy, but the show went on.
Yeah. He was very interesting and that brought back memories. When I heard the crown talking tonight.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting.
[00:39:30] Speaker D: My dad.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: Well, he sounds like an interesting man. I'm glad I've heard about him. Everett, I thank you.
[00:39:35] Speaker G: Well, you're welcome.
[00:39:35] Speaker D: And I don't lay down in the listen to more of your show, Norm.
[00:39:39] Speaker H: Okay.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: Ever. Thanks a lot.
[00:39:40] Speaker D: And I won't burp like Bob.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: Okay. What did he mean by that, I won't burp like Bob?
I don't know. I don't know. I should have asked him what he meant by that. I won't burp like Bob. Okay, here's Joe, who's down in Florida.
[00:39:54] Speaker J: Hey, Joe, how you doing?
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Where in Florida are you?
[00:39:58] Speaker J: Vero Beach.
[00:40:00] Speaker B: Vero Beach.
[00:40:01] Speaker J: It's between Melbourne and, let's see, Port Pierce.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: Is that on the Gulf side?
[00:40:12] Speaker J: No.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Oh no, the Atlantic side. Okay.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:40:16] Speaker J: But I, I just moved down here from Weymouth, so I'm an old time listener.
[00:40:20] Speaker B: Can you, can you hear us down there right now?
[00:40:23] Speaker J: We hear you just about every night.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: No kidding.
[00:40:26] Speaker J: From about midnight right. Until about 5:00 in the morning.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: No kidding. Isn't that, isn't that something? I know we, we come into sections of Florida Occas, but I didn't, I, I didn't realize we got there all, you know, as often as that. That's nice.
[00:40:42] Speaker J: And then also we hear you from about 6:00 until about 8:00 at night if I'm in my car.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Hey, you're okay. What, what made you move down there?
[00:40:53] Speaker J: Just to get away from the winter and just to just have a change of life.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: I don't blame you. Has it been fun?
[00:41:00] Speaker J: It's been glorious, yes. When?
[00:41:02] Speaker B: Now, when did you move?
[00:41:03] Speaker J: We moved last September.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: Oh, so this is your first winter in Florida then?
[00:41:08] Speaker J: No, this is still September.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: Wait a minute. This is still September. You moved this past September?
[00:41:15] Speaker J: Yes, but it hasn't changed.
It's been glorious down here.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: No, no, what I mean is this is the first year you've been away from New England in the wintertime.
[00:41:24] Speaker J: What I'm. What I'm saying is that it seems like it's been caught in September. There's been no.
[00:41:29] Speaker B: I see. Okay.
[00:41:30] Speaker J: There's been no cold or anything like that.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And this has probably been one of the worst winters we've had in a very long time. But you probably know that.
[00:41:37] Speaker J: I know we. Because we get you every night and all my kids are up there and we miss them very much.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you buy a house down there at Vero Beach?
[00:41:47] Speaker J: Yes, we did.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Okay, good enough.
So you won't be coming back during the summertime here, will you?
[00:41:54] Speaker J: We hope to come back there for a couple of months during the summer, just, you know, to see the kids and everything.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Okay, good, good.
[00:42:00] Speaker J: But you were coming in so good tonight. We just had to say hello.
[00:42:04] Speaker B: I appreciate that, Joe. You're nice to call, and I thank you very much. I hope you have many, many years of great happiness, you and your wife down there in Florida.
[00:42:12] Speaker J: Yes. Can I say hello to my kids?
[00:42:13] Speaker B: By all means.
[00:42:15] Speaker J: Brian, Dan, Sean, Kelly, Jim and Joe. They're still up there and they're still waiting to come on down here.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: You have five sons?
[00:42:22] Speaker J: Oh, I've had nine kids. I got three of them with me.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: No kidding. Okay. Good enough.
[00:42:28] Speaker G: Okay.
[00:42:28] Speaker J: And, you know, I met you years and years ago over at W. I think it was wcop.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Really? Boy, that is years ago.
[00:42:35] Speaker J: My sister used to write a column for the Boston Pilot on T alley.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[00:42:43] Speaker J: Yep. And I know I met you there and, you know, I thought the world to you and your late wife and everything else like that.
[00:42:51] Speaker B: Well, I. I thank you very much for that, Joe. That's very kind of you.
[00:42:54] Speaker J: Okay, good night.
[00:42:55] Speaker D: Best wishes, Las Vegas.
[00:42:57] Speaker F: And also in Lexington, Virginia. And while they were here, had two of the top clowns with the group of about 15, stayed at my house for 10 days.
[00:43:10] Speaker B: Really?
[00:43:10] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: And was that much money communications barrier there. Did they speak English at all?
[00:43:17] Speaker F: They spoke a little bit of English, but not too much. And this was before the, you know, the communist block, you know, dissolved and all that. And they. They had like a KGB agent that went with them and they had.
Yeah, it's true, very true. And they had a lot of political people come and check out the families that they were going to stay with and everything. And it was. They were. It was all tense, but the clowns were extremely funny. And they did their work almost in pantomime without. With very little, you know, speech.
And.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: Are you talking about they did that at the circus, did they? No, at your house, you mean also.
[00:43:56] Speaker F: Oh, at the house they were even more outrageous. They were much more funny around the home.
Like, didn't getting breakfast in the morning, they would come down and stand in line, hold their bowls and bang their bowls. And one night we were having A picnic. You know, it was a social event, of course, when these like, Russians would come and visit. And when they were visiting the States, they didn't. They stayed in hotels except in this little small town here. And when they stayed here with their first opportunity to, you know, to stay with people, you know, families sort of unwatched very much. And they were hysterical. They're extremely funny.
[00:44:36] Speaker B: They're.
[00:44:36] Speaker F: I hooked a garden tractor up to my canoe and drug it around in the field. And the one clown would drive and act real silly and the other clown would sit in the canoe and play like he was paddling out across the field and they would stuff like complete pears in their mouths and.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: How long, how long were they at your house?
[00:44:55] Speaker F: 10 days.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: Oh, son of a gun.
[00:44:57] Speaker F: It was really outrageous. And the thing of it is, in Russia at the time, they said that they were vouching socially, you know, like higher than doctors and were really admired and had a real good social prestige that went with the situation. And they were so physically fit that they could do kips on bars and somersaults and flips and rollovers and they were extremely hilarious and had great high paced and fast music during their show.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:33] Speaker F: And they would, they love potatoes and they would wake up in the morning and go down and get vodka and drink it for breakfast.
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:42] Speaker F: They were young men and they had been, you know, educated in other fields like, you know, physics and like they were. They were very intelligent and very, very physical. Adept. Some of them were about 25. They'd been working for years to learn how to do their, you know, practice their craft. And it was real interesting. So while they were here visiting me, I was, you know, trying to find something for them to do. And I went to this town nearby and found in the town of Buckhannon, Virginia, a place run by a clown. A clown, A professional clown who had been with a circus named Buttons the Clown. And he had a clown museum. And inside this building that, that he manufactured clown noses and clown shoes for a living. That's how he made it. You know, he earned a livelihood by selling clown shoes and clown noses. But up in his second floor, he had about 250 goose eggs. And on all the goose eggs where the clowns faces were painted, every. Every clown would register his different face, his, you know, trademark face on this egg, and would send it into him.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: Now, I don't know if the rest of that call is on tape somewhere or hearing it again brought me back to hearing it live. Either way, that was another good night. And a special treat for me to be back producing in the studio and not just booking guests. For normalized. Check the links below if you'd like to support the show. See you all next week. Closing the vault and leaving this world a little sillier than we found it for clowning around, joining the circus Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Clown College A pie in the face serious about being silly the Circus World Museum Double parked elephants, TJ Tatters rattling papers Chorus girls, showgirls and strippers Scolly Square old burlesque houses Norman tights performing on the trapeze Schermfeller, John Kiley stuffed jumbos Tufts, Barnum Hall Fred from Medford Phobias Norman Day the Teen Canteen Norm sings Taking off your shoes and stockings and walking into the woods being a poop Gene Autry's horse Good hearted hobos the big top burping like Bob Constant Septembers the Boston Pilot and Tin Pan Alley KGB clowns Is that an oxymoron? And the recipient of an honorary red nose, Norm Nathan, I'm Tony Nesbitt singing.
[00:48:31] Speaker B: And dancing my way into your hearts. What the hell's the matter with me? My, why do I always act just so darn silly?
