Norm Nathan's Vault of Silliness with Tony Nesbitt - Ep 245 - Astron-Normy

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Did you notice anything about last week's episode? It was an encore of our very first release from the Vault of Silliness. Good old episode one. Since we're closing in on 250, I thought, eh, why not? But it was a fresh edit title and notes. That episode was so ridiculous, I may repeat it every year. That moves us to this week where we have a Norm Nathan show from July 23, 1995, which I've titled after Astronomy. Like Astronomy. Well, our guest was Bob Berman, author of Secrets of the Night Sky. At the time, he also wrote a column in Discover magazine called the Night Watchman and hosted a weekly broadcast on Northeast Public Radio. He talks all things astronomy in an easy to understand way. As fascinating an interview now as it was then. You know, I still have my copy of that book. We even take some calls. Woody on a car phone, Jim in Boston, John from Wellesley, Bob in his car, and Richard from Shrewsbury. We move on to hour two where Norm takes a variety of calls. John from Boca Raton, Connie and Melrose, Dawn, Steve from Melrose. We'll get back to that in a moment. Jane, Helen and Malden, Bill from Houghton, Lake, Michigan, and Karen in Toledo, Ohio. The Steve from Melrose call was a special find here in the Vault. A regular caller when he was in high school, he went on to pursue a career in the world of wrestling. We get an entertaining update from him here. My wonderful subscribers on Patreon got a sneak preview of that call. Just one of the perks of becoming a patron. Exclusive content and episode previews, among other silliness. Think about subscribing, won't you? During my close, we'll get to hear a familiar voice on a commercial, so stay tuned throughout episode 245, Astronomy rockets its way to your ears in three, two and one. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Lift you up when you're down. Nor Nathan or WBC in Boston. [00:02:16] Speaker C: Yes, hello. We have an interesting man I'm going to talk with. I assume he's interesting since the book that he's written called Secrets of the Night sky is interesting. And since he's done a whole lot of other interesting things. Anyway, anyway, I'm rambling on. His name is Bob Berman and he is. I guess he can take the secrets of the sky and the universe and astronomy and all that and put them in layman's terms. And I. I really hope he can because there's a whole area that I know just so little about. I really kind of. I go into this interview with great trepidation, but we'll talk About Bob and John. Good. Then, I don't know. We'll ask you a few questions first, before you say that, I'm looking at your picture in. In the. The book that you wrote, Secrets of the Night sky, published by William Morrow. And also, you got a really major publisher and all that. And you look so convivial and young and smiling, and you're obviously, you're very much in love with your subject, so it's taken away some of the trepidation I have. It's an area I know so little about. I'm not even quite sure I know of any intelligent questions to ask you. Although the book is written, I think, written beautifully, and it's aimed at louts like me who do know so little. [00:03:32] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:03:33] Speaker C: But you open up a whole lot of areas that are fun to know about anyway. You. You have. You do. You. You are director of the Overlook Observatory in Woodstock, New York, which is, I assume, where you are right now. Are you up in Woodstock? [00:03:49] Speaker D: That's right. We just had our thunderstorm pass through. It's on its way to you, I. [00:03:52] Speaker C: Think, hey, I'll be looking out the window, checking for it and giving it a big New England welcome. And you write the. I'm telling you these things like you didn't know you did these. But obviously for people listening who will say, who's. Who's Bob Berman? And how come he knows that much? He writes the Night Watchman column and Discover magazine and has a weekly broadcast on Northeast Public Radio, which. Which I assume must be carried here in Boston, but I'm not really sure about it. [00:04:21] Speaker D: No, I think it doesn't quite reach Boston. We reach western New England and New York State and up to. Up to the southern parts of Canada, and that's it. But I think it's stops just short of Boston. [00:04:35] Speaker C: Well, shame on you and the entire system if that be the case. The idea, I would guess, is for you to bring the excitement of astronomy and all of those things to a whole lot of people who normally would think that. I was going to say that it's way over our heads, which is a terrible analogy. I shouldn't phrase it quite that way. And you. You do in the book. I know, and you're gonna have to help me a lot on this because it's a subject I don't know much about, but. [00:05:06] Speaker D: Sure. And most people don't. And, and the whole idea is, many people think that you have to have a telescope or you have to work with star charts and, and people hate that kind of thing. Nobody wants to really have to learn the constellations or to find their way around the sky in order to see exciting things. And you don't. And that's really the whole purpose of the book, that there are so many exciting things to be seen with the naked eye without fancy equipment, without really any knowledge of the sky. [00:05:35] Speaker C: And you divided it up into four seasons. And of course, right now we're in the summer season. I was looking through that section. So there are different things to be seen, obviously depending on what time of year it is a really general question. But what do we look for now, for example, in the middle of July? [00:05:54] Speaker D: Well, right now we're starting with the summer meteors. They usually. The Perseid meteor shower, which reaches its climax around August 11, is the premier sky event of the year. We share space with pieces of debris, and any clear night we'll see one meteor, or shooting star, or falling star, as people call it, every 10 minutes or so. But during a meteor shower, they increases to about one per minute. And starting this week, the intensity of meteors increases. And this has been a rather dangerous area to live so far as meteors go, because a number of houses have been struck, property has been damaged. Gee, in the last 15 or 20 years, we've really had some vivid demonstrations that we're not alone in space. And these stones from space have been raining down on us and. And we can see it for ourselves on a clear night. [00:06:48] Speaker C: You were suggesting that the people, more than. These are your statistics, I guess. Six times more likely to be killed by a meteor than in an airplane crash. And that's something you just never think of. Can you get insurance against being killed by a meteor? That would be a funny claim to make. [00:07:07] Speaker D: I don't think so. Although nobody's actually ever been killed. Only one person has. Well, that's not true. Last year I would have said one person in history has been struck by a meteor. A woman in Alabama, 1954, came through the roof of her house while she was relaxing on her couch, bounced off her radio and hit her in the leg, not seriously injuring her, fortunately. But Last year, on June 21, almost exactly a year ago, a fellow and his wife on vacation in Spain had a meteor crash through the windshield of their car and it broke his little finger. I wonder if he told the. I wonder if he used that as an excuse why he didn't come to work. Boss believed him. [00:07:49] Speaker C: I know wild elephants cut across the main highway and hit my car and then disappeared into the woods. It's kind of like that kind of an excuse. But now, Cece, when I think of a meteor, I think we all think of small things and yet sometimes when they land on the soil, they create craters that are kind of huge. But meteors basically are not all that big. [00:08:12] Speaker D: That's right. Most of them are only the size of apple seeds. And most of them, although they streak across the night sky and they look so bright, are really just tiny things. A grape sized meteor is very unusual. And almost invariably as well, they turn into dust. So the Earth gets a few million tons heavier each year. We're all gaining a little bit of weight as we get older and the Earth is doing the same thing. And again we see this happen on any clear night. You don't even have to be in the country. Even from the city, you can see this pretty nicely. So this year, unfortunately, there'll be a full moon right at the time of maximum of the Perseid meteors. So this is not a great year to watch the summer meteor. So. And it will go on to other topics of things to look for. But the best time to see them is probably between now and about August 6, because after that, even though the meteors get more plentiful, the moon gets brighter and washes out all but the brightest specimens. [00:09:08] Speaker C: It was an item. We'll get back to that in just a minute. Things to look for during the summer and all that. But was item that came across our Associated Press wire just a few hours ago. The question was, is the summer half over or is there half left to go? Experts say it depends on how you count the days as solar summer or holiday summer. This I know is, you know, is piddling stuff to you, but I'm wondering about this. Under the National Weather Service definition, summer reached the halfway mark, July 15th. The weather service defined summer as the complete calendar months of June, July and August. Some forecasters say many people define summer the same way because of the school schedule. But then there are guys like you who look at it from a different angle. I would assume solar summer, based on astronomy, provides the longest official summer season with 95 days compared with 92 days in a conventional calendar. Summer. Solar summer began June 21st. I know that in some in Australia, I guess in some other parts of the world, the seasons begin on the first of the month, rather than like they do here on the 21st. So I don't even know what questions to ask you out of all of this. I don't know whether this even was worth mentioning. [00:10:25] Speaker D: Well, we do key the cardinal directions for Us, just as we have cardinal north, south and east west are the two solstices and the two equinoxes. So we just use those arbitrarily as the dates. We say summer begins on the date of the longest days and when the sun is highest, and then it ends on the days when days and nights are equal. Of course, you're quite right. It doesn't match up to our warmest weather, to our vacation periods, to really anything that we follow in real life. But it does really match actual events in the sky. And that's sort of nice because we're in an age these days where in most cities night is pretty synthetic. We don't really have a real night and we don't really have holidays based on the moon anymore, except for Easter. And so a few remnants in our calendar of the from the old periods when we actually did use real astronomical events is kind of nice. I'm glad we do it that way. Now. [00:11:27] Speaker C: What did you mean, you said that we don't really have no nights anymore. [00:11:31] Speaker D: Well, we don't have night to speak of. Instead of night fully falling and it getting fully dark and even letting our eyes get fully dark adapted, we only experience a level of darkness in today's cities that's about equal to mid nautical twilight because of the presence of synthetic lights. Instead of 6,000 stars of the the night sky, for example, we see about 300 the Northern Lights. And the Milky Way has been gone since about the 1930s from say Boston or New York City. And. But of course, just go 10, 15, 20 miles outside of town and there they are again. [00:12:14] Speaker C: Yeah, no, because I live. I live out in the country and it is true. I mean, it's so different. And we do have nights and we have seasons. I think in the city they don't even of seasons. It's, you know, I mean, I know it snows and it gets colder in the winter time and all of that, but you don't see the subtleties of changes. The, you know, the dogwoods and the. Or the skunk cabbage and all that coming up and that, that kind of thing in the city South. I think people. I think people who live in cities miss everything is. What kind of a town is Woodstock? Are you pretty much out in the kind. Is that the same Woodstock as the music festival and all? [00:12:46] Speaker D: Yeah, yep. My own home in our observatory. We have an observatory near here that's really outside of Woodstock. We're between Woodstock and the town of Saugerties. But yes, it's very much in the Country. The skies are still pretty dark here, and we're right in the Catskill Mountains. So, yes, this is still country, and we still get seasons here. [00:13:08] Speaker C: Okay? Now, a lot of people say there's a full moon out. And I hear that a lot, because people say, boy, the phone calls you're getting tonight are really idiotic, more so than usual. And, you know, I mean, and there's a full moon, and they sort of tie in the two. And I suspect you do not. But is this. Does the full moon. Does it have an effect, like on surgery? Some doctors say they won't operate when there's a full moon because the patients bleed too much. All that. [00:13:36] Speaker D: We don't think so. All the studies, and there have been a fair amount of studies on this, have shown that there really is no correlation between the things that people claim there are. For example, crime, menstrual periods, births in maternity room. Physicians and nurses have always told me, and this is prevalent in the literature, that they see it, they're sure it exists, that births increase at around the time of full moon and decrease at other phases, but it doesn't happen. Actuarial tables, for example, tells us that births are evenly scattered randomly around the lunar month. There are more births in September than in other parts of the year, showing that humans perhaps have a fertility cycle based on seasons. Or maybe it's just that those long, what would it be, December or January nights maybe have some influence on us, but nothing with the lunar month. No. So what we're left with is why do we perceive these links to the moon that aren't there? And there's no question the moon affects tides and marine life and maybe even some things we don't know about. It does affect the weather. These are recent discoveries. But it doesn't have the influences that people attribute to it. I think the reason. The reason is simply that we observe the full moon, we notice the full moon. It's the only phase that's out all night long. And most people will call the moon full when it's actually quite a bit out of round. And if a person sees a full moon, they go to work, and let's say they're a nurse or a physician at a maternity wing, notice a lot of births by chance that night. They'll make the connection, they'll say, and the whole place will be buzzing with, aha, I knew it. Full moon. But if they don't notice a full moon, or if there isn't a full moon and there are a lot of births, they just don't think about the matter at all. They make no connection one way or the other. So over time, there's a link, there's a reinforcement between the idea of more. [00:15:38] Speaker C: Births and the full moon, I think. Also I wonder if there's not a tie in with very particular primitive tribes who were very superstitious about things and, you know, didn't understand nature at all and began tying everything in with what was happening. I was thinking of thunder and lightning. The gods are. Gods are unhappy with us. And so he's making it rain and thunder and lightning, whether that isn't some of that just still left over. And we see Frankenstein movies and all that kind of stuff where the moon becomes a very ominous kind of. Kind of thing. Maybe deep down we'd like to be superstition and like to believe that there are all kinds of mysterious things happening that we don't know about. And guys like you kind of reveal that, that it's not so and you spoil it for us. We can't be kids again, living in an ignorant, childlike way. [00:16:31] Speaker D: But perhaps we can replace it with new wonders, things such as how bright the moon is and how large it appears when it's rising. We've all noticed, for example, the famous moon illusion. The moon looks enormous, doesn't it, when it's first coming up or going down. And there are many aspects of the moon, the harvest mode, that are interesting in and of themselves, even without the old myths that they've displaced. [00:16:58] Speaker C: Okay. Because the old myths gave the different moon at different times of the year different names and all that kind of. You mentioned the harvest moon and then the phrase once in a blue moon. And of course, moon says to pop up so often in romantic things. Let me ask you about. We'll take a break for some commercials, and I want to ask you some questions about the space program. That be all right with you? Where we go, how far can we go with that? And how much can we explore of this, this whole Bob Berman area? Out and out and out, outer space. Okay, we'll be back in just a minute. Say, to make it fascinating is kind of silly because it is a fascinating subject, but you make it. You bring it into the lay people's vocabulary and make it easier for most of us to understand. And I really appreciate that because it's an area that many of us find very difficult to tangle with. And yet you. You became interested in this when you were about to practically out of the womb. Oh, I'm sorry. Let me. Let me turn you back on there you go, Bob. I'm sorry. [00:17:59] Speaker D: Yes, it's been a love of my life. Yes, certainly. [00:18:06] Speaker C: Supposedly you had not. Supposedly you had said you'd read about every book on astronomy by the time you were 11 or 12 years old. Something like that. [00:18:14] Speaker D: I was one of those impossible kids with it. It's just about the only subject that I would just go through every library book on. And of course I took all the. The courses I could at colleges. But by that time I really thought I knew everything about it. And I came in later years to realize that there's always a lot more that you don't know that you know. But yes, it has been a lifelong obsession. [00:18:42] Speaker C: You mention also that the books written about certain parts of this whole subject as recently as, say, 20 years ago pretty much are obsolete now. Is that true? [00:18:53] Speaker D: Oh, yes, yes. That's the marvelous thing between the spacecraft voyages to the planets, the Mariner and Viking and Pioneer and Voyager, spacecraft that have just rewritten our knowledge. Not just our knowledge. It's the even. Just the aesthetic appreciation of the planets Uranus and Neptune were just dots 20, 25 years ago. And even the moons, the satellites of the worlds, have now become worlds in and of themselves. So yes, planetary astronomy especially, but even the. The plethora of large telescopes that have been built, many people still think of Palomar, Mount Palomar, as people would call it, as the largest telescope, even though that's been surpassed in the 1970s and now it's only fifth in size. And we have telescopes twice as large as Palomar. And of course, the marvelous Hubble Space Telescope and all the rest. It's really made any textbook, any book from 20 years ago just belong in the trash bin. Our knowledge of the universe is so totally changed in this time as we. [00:19:59] Speaker C: Approach the year 2000 on this new in the millennium, what do you see and how far can the space program go? And if you were in charge of the space program, would you handle it differently in order to get of other bits of information that you think maybe we're not on the trail of. [00:20:15] Speaker D: Well, sure. A lot of people think that the space shuttle is so expensive that it's a bit of a waste. People imagine the astronauts being far out in space. And there's been a public relations program by the government to make us think the astronauts are really exploring the universe. But they're barely above Earth. They're as close to Boston as New York City is. They're barely up. They're barely above the atmosphere. They're only 200 miles up. So considering that our planet is 8,000 miles in diameter. If you can picture a little dot of a spacecraft 200 miles above an 8,000 mile diameter ball, you realize how just barely above the surface they are. We'd like to spend this tremendous amount, amount of money that's now being proposed for a space station whose uses are kind of dubious. Not to say it's entirely wrong and that there aren't people with a different viewpoint on this, but the unmanned probes right now, or the unpeopled probes, or whichever is the correct way to say it, that have been exploring the solar system. The Galileo spacecraft en route to Jupiter, which will be arriving on the first week of December of this year. And the fabulous Voyager craft that have explored Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, and the Cassini craft that will be going to Saturn in a few years, more of these would be marvelous because these really are changing our perceptions of the universe. [00:21:49] Speaker C: You see, you're saying that when we send people into space, that's really a PR gesture and that doesn't anything. [00:21:54] Speaker D: Well, because we're not really sending anybody anywhere. A lot of us were surprised back when Neil Armstrong said that's one small step for man, one giant leap. Who would have thought back then, 26 years ago, quarter century ago, that here it would be a quarter century later and not only would we not go back to the moon, we don't even have any plans to go back to the moon. Of course, the reason for that is that the moon rocks were found to be anhydrous, just bone dry. You can't even squeeze water out of a moon rock. So there's no life sustaining substance on the moon. We have to bring every quart of water that we need with us. And water's pretty heavy to carry, so. And there's nothing valuable on the moon, it has no military value. There's no diamonds, no uranium. So it would be a fantastically expensive water hauling operation to supply a colony on the moon. That's why our next destination is really going to be Mars. So far as bringing people anywhere, and we think in about a quarter of a century perhaps we maybe together with the Russians will be going to Mars. And that will give everybody an exciting sense of goal or destination that's probably worth doing. But having people just orbit the earth expensively, I'm not so sure. We're just not so sure. [00:23:19] Speaker C: This link up with, link up with another spacecraft and all means really nothing. Could we have found out all this? The dryness of the moon and the things you were saying could we have found this out without sending somebody to the moon at that time. Was that really looking back on it, was that just a waste? [00:23:35] Speaker D: No, I don't think that was a waste because. Because this was such a more than a romantic gesture. We all have built into us as humans this desire to explore. When we were kids, we wanted to explore our house, our attic, ride our bicycles in the neighborhood, explore farther and farther away. We have this sense of wanting to explore our environs. And space is our environs. And going to the moon was such an exciting collective thing to do that it was. Who could argue that it was worth the money and worth doing that? The only thing is, we're not doing that now. We're sending people just 200 miles up, orbiting the Earth over and over again and accomplishing missions that really could be accomplished, almost all of them by robotic probes. So we have to find more of a mission for spending this kind of fantastic amount of money, money that the space shuttle costs, or else we can simply send robots. Now, not to say that we won't someday do it, when our speeds can increase 10 or 20 times what they are now, then we can visit more of the solar system or perhaps even someday visit the stars. But this is just perhaps not the time for that. This is the time for computer advancements and robot probes to the planets to really tell us what's going on. And maybe we just sense our future destiny and we want to hurry it along a little bit. Maybe that's why we're talking about manned. [00:25:02] Speaker C: Space probes, because you're talking. You're talking about visiting the stars, and you say the stars are really just gaseous objects, that they're not solids at all, are they? [00:25:12] Speaker D: That's right. Like the sun. [00:25:14] Speaker C: So how do we visit the stars? [00:25:15] Speaker D: Well, we wouldn't really visit a star per se. We'd visit planetary systems that we think surround stars. We really don't know. Because today's technology is insufficient to detect planets around any star. We assume that the stars of the night sky have planets. And in some cases, we see little motions of these stars as if they're being tugged one way and then another by presumably. Presumably they're planets tugging at them. So there's indirect evidence, but we've never actually seen or imaged a planet around any other star. But we assume that they're there and it would be on those planets that we would like to explore. [00:25:57] Speaker C: Would it be okay with you if I suggested may people like to call and maybe ask you questions and talk. [00:26:02] Speaker D: With you, that would be fine. [00:26:03] Speaker C: Okay. Bob Berman, who is tremendously knowledgeable and I don't have to say how interesting is because you've had a chance to hear that you can reach him at 617-254-1030-617, the area code of Boston, 25-4-1030. And we'll open the lines to people who have questions for Bob on Obviously, I'm certain we're talking about. That's pretty that's pretty obvious. We'll get back to Bob and take your question. Just a minute. Woody, who's calling from his car somewhere around the area. Hi, Woody. [00:26:34] Speaker D: Hi. How are you? Good evening. [00:26:35] Speaker C: Good evening. [00:26:35] Speaker D: Well, I have a good connection. Quick question and a quick comment. The question for your guest is could he explain, if this is correct, why some of the stars that we see in the sky no longer exist? I'm sorry. And I'll wait for that answer if I can make a quick comment. I'll sit down here if it's all right. [00:26:56] Speaker C: Sure. [00:26:56] Speaker D: Yes, a lot of people say that, and it's a wonderful thing to say because even though it's wrong, because it correctly shows that what we see is never what is but what was, we always see the past because light, even though it's a it's very fast, takes some time to travel to us. And the stars are, of course, light years away, usually 10, 20, 100, even a couple of hundred light years away. So it takes that amount of time for the starlight to reach us. The reason it's not true is that There is only 6,000 stars visible to the naked eye, and stars typically live for billions of years. So if you actually do the math and figure out what is the chance that even one of those stars has died in the brief couple of hundred years that it took its light to reach us, when they live for billions of years, you'll see that the odds are hundreds to one against even one star of the night sky no longer being there. Would that also be true? A couple of years ago, I was off the coast of Brazil, near Salvador to Bahia to Brazil, and I was out at sea and the sky was. Anyone who knows, on a ship the sky is packed with stars. Yeah. Would that still be true then? Yes. It's surprising. You'd think that there would be millions of stars that wallpaper the rural skies or the skies over a clear ocean or over a desert. But the truth is that the most you'll ever see at one time, even including the little faint ones, are 3,000 stars, much fewer than most people think. The other comment, very briefly, and I promise to keep it quick, is insofar as the shuttle goes and humans on board and so forth, isn't it true that the development of obstacle materials, the development of engineering and research and computers and so forth, that all of those, that is the applied sciences, have yielded enormous benefits here on Earth? And I'll hang up and listen to your guests. Thank you. [00:28:52] Speaker C: Okay, thanks a lot, Woody. [00:28:54] Speaker D: Yes, thank you. It's yielded some benefit. Whether it has yielded the billions and billions of dollars worth of benefit that that would justify it, I'm not sure. But the point was a very good one. Your first point about the starlight. And it's true when we look out into space, we're always seeing the past. [00:29:13] Speaker C: Okay, here's Jim, who's here in Boston. Jim, you're on WBZ with Bob Berman. Good morning. Good morning, Bob. [00:29:19] Speaker D: Hi, Jim. We're on vacation in Nova Scotia. I think they call it the northern lights. What causes them? And when you see a shooting stop, what causes that point? Well, the shooting star is just a meteor. It's pretty anticlimactic. Meteors are just, as we said earlier, bits of rock or metal the size of apples that are hitting the air not very high overhead, 30, 40, 50, 60 miles and burning up into dust. And we're just seeing them burn into dust. But the northern lights, the first part of your question is something else again, and people who think that we have to go to Alaska or to the North Pole to see them, no way. People who live in the rural skies right around here in New England or upstate New York will see a beautiful display of the aurora borealis every few years or so. And we'll see some display of the northern lights, usually once a month or so. So they're actually very common. And up there in Nova Scotia, even somewhat more often, they're caused by broken bits of atoms that come at us from the sun at a million miles an hour, take about four days to get from the sun to here. When there is a storm on the sun, which is shown by sunspots, these bits of, of atomic material cross, and because they're charged, they cross Earth's magnetic field, generate tremendous voltages. We're talking about 2 million amps, typically. And with that kind of electricity, they excite atoms in our atmosphere, nitrogen and oxygen, to jump. The electrons jump to higher orbits, and when they cascade back down again, they create the greenish color and the reddish color of the aurora borealis. So that may have been a more long winded explanation than you'd like. But that's what causes them storms on the sun. [00:31:02] Speaker C: Now, that was an interesting explanation. [00:31:04] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:31:05] Speaker C: All said, Jim. Thank you very much. Let's go to John in Wellesley. John, you're on wbz. Let me see. I think I hit the wrong button here. Hold on just one second. Here's John. John and Wellesley. Hi, John. [00:31:20] Speaker D: Good morning, gentlemen. [00:31:21] Speaker C: Good morning. [00:31:22] Speaker D: I have a question about the creation of universe. Would that be out of line at this point? [00:31:29] Speaker C: No. [00:31:29] Speaker D: Why not? Okay. It's my understanding that the Big Bang theory is one of the theories of creation where everything is expanding away towards outer space. My question is, is there a point at which it will stop expanding out? And what might possibly happen when it does start expanding out? Well, that's the $64,000 question. Now, what is the destiny of all of us, of every planet and star and creature in this universe? Are we living in a universe that's destined to expand forever? That's kind of gloomy. It's philosophically gloomy. And it's unfortunately, the way the evidence is pointing these days, days toward an open universe which means that it will expand forever. And that means the star formation and the nebulas that are creating new life and new, new galaxies will go out and all we'll have left are cold, dark embers of what were once stars and galaxies hurtling outward in ever greater isolation from one another. That's such a pessimistic outlook. And I shouldn't be editorializing because this is supposed to be science that many of us hope that the universe actually is closed which means that the universe will slow and then eventually stop and then come back together again into another, well, cosmic egg, one giant big crunch and maybe rebound out again. Maybe we live in an oscillating universe that keeps breathing in and out every 60 or 80 billion years like the old Hindu legend of the breaths of Brahma. Each time, maybe with new laws of physics, maybe next time things will be opposite. Water will run uphill, taxes will go down every year. Who knows? I'd like to ask something else along with this, please. What might have existed that exploded in the first place if something in and of itself exploded with such force that it created, as my understanding is correct that it created the galaxies and everything in the universe what possibly existed in the beginning that exploded like that to what might have caused it? And what was it with such force that created everything? Well, that, of course, is another good question. And to answer it's scientifically, the usual explanation these days is that the universe Was a quantum mechanical fluctuation. In other words, it was a. We, we occasionally see things popping into existence on the subatomic level given enough time. And presumably the pre universe universe had plenty of time on its hands. Given enough of it, you'd have the creation of an entire universe which would show just the properties that we see, which is a universe expanding at very nearly the rate that matches its tendency to want to slow down and collapse again. But time itself and space itself began at that moment. So it really isn't even a valid question to ask what happened before that, because the time itself began at that moment. However, if we want to play with that, we could say maybe this was the reason result of a previous collapse from an earlier universe. Maybe we really do live in an oscillating universe model where the universe collapses and then rebounds out again. We don't know how that would happen, but of course we don't really know how this one happened. Well, thank you very much for your explanation. Thank you. My pleasure. Good night, John. [00:35:08] Speaker C: Good night, John. Thank you for calling. This whole subject is so fascinating and you, you really, really bring it down to the level of even boobs like me. I really appreciate that. [00:35:17] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:35:18] Speaker C: And every line is just lit up because everybody wants to talk, including Bob who is in his car right now. Hi Bob. Hi, Norm. [00:35:25] Speaker D: How you doing? [00:35:26] Speaker C: Good, thanks. First time caller. Nice. Nice to have you call. I just have a quick question and I'll listen on the radio. [00:35:33] Speaker D: You mentioned it earlier, the expression of blue moon. And I was wondering what, you know. [00:35:38] Speaker C: What a blue moon was, was and. [00:35:39] Speaker D: How often we had one. Yeah, well, a blue moon is defined as the second. [00:35:44] Speaker C: Okay, why don't, why don't I clip you off, Bob? Unless you have another follow up question. Do you? Okay, okay. Because you're kind of noisy out there. Okay. [00:35:51] Speaker D: Yes, the blue moon is defined as the second full moon in the same month. Since the moon's period of phases is 29 and a half days. And our calendar months of course are usually 30 or 31, it'll follow usually once every two and a half years on average that you'll get two full moons in the same month. In fact, if a full moon lands on the first or second of a month, they'll normally be a second full moon. And that second full moon is called a blue moon. So usually when we use the expression once in a blue moon, we're talking about something that's a lot rarer than once every two and a half years. But that's what it is. [00:36:30] Speaker C: But it has nothing to do with the color of the moon or anything. [00:36:32] Speaker D: No, I've never seen or I've never heard of anyone who's actually seen a blue colored moon. [00:36:37] Speaker C: The moon. [00:36:37] Speaker D: The moons of course are orange or red or yellow when they're rising or setting because we're seeing them through more atmosphere. But blue, no. [00:36:44] Speaker C: Okay. It produced a lovely Rogers and Heart song anyway. [00:36:49] Speaker D: A beautiful song. [00:36:50] Speaker C: Yeah. 2, 5, 4, 1030 area code 617. If you'd like to talk to Bob Berman, Richard in Shrewsbury. Hi, Richard, you're on WBZ. Hi, Mr. Berman. [00:37:02] Speaker D: I've been doing some readings on astronomy. I find it the most fascinating subject to raise. And what really impresses me is this super giant star, Antares. Yes. In the Scorpio configuration. Yes. Right near. I read that it was 850 million miles in diameter. Yes, that's right. Right, that's right. Well, I mean compared to the Earth's 7,000 miles. Wow. Yes, that's right. Which would mean that it would fill our solar system beyond the orbit of Mars and almost to the orbit of Jupiter. 850 million miles in diameter. Yes. Yes. It's just about the largest thing you're going to see this summer and it's easy for anybody to sit. Remember when we're talking about this book, what we're focusing on are things you can see with the naked eye without any star charts or knowledge. And the brightest thing in the sky these nights is the planet Jupiter. Really, it's a no brainer. You just look around the sky, you find the brightest star, that's Jupiter. And if you look below and to the left of Jupiter, as you know, I'm saying this for the other listeners, if you look below and to the left of Jupiter, there is a beautiful reddish star and that's Antares, the heart of Scorpius, the Scorpion. So the star we're talking about, this largest thing the naked eye can see this summer is right there. Very obvious every night. Then I was also reading about the neutron stars which they say a cubic inch would weigh a million tons. That's right. That's right. Amazing, isn't it? [00:38:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:37] Speaker D: These escape velocity on these stars is so high that it approaches the speed of light. If anybody, any starship captain, made the serious error of trying to land on one, they and their rocket would be immediately crushed down into a thin film of like lubricating oil that would spread itself evenly over the surface. Go into a black hole. Huh. It's close to it. Yeah. [00:39:02] Speaker C: Thank you very much, Richard. [00:39:04] Speaker D: Interesting. Thank you. [00:39:05] Speaker C: Appreciate you calling. Yeah, the whole subject is absolutely fascinating. Again, secrets of the Night Sky, I would think, must be available just about everywhere. Is it published by William Morrow Company, which is a major publishing outfit, and you get some great pictures in there, great sketches, and it just, the book is put together just beautifully. [00:39:26] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:39:30] Speaker C: Before I let you go, what about, are there other things we ought to be looking for in the sky over the next, say, next month or so? [00:39:39] Speaker D: Well, two really easy, fascinating things are. One is Earth's shadow. At this time of year, it's really easy to see actually any time of year, just after sunset, if you look toward the east, if you're near the ocean, you can face a clear horizon. Or anytime you have an unobstructed eastern horizon, you look opposite to the sunset. Sunsets in the west, of course, so we're looking in the east. And just at around the time of sunset, there is a dark gray horizontal band that seems to cover the eastern horizon. Most people think this is just simply the darkening of the twilight sky or the beginning of night. But this is called the twilight wedge. And what it is is our own shadow, our planet's shadow, Earth's shadow, being thrown a million miles out into space. And just as each of us casts a shadow in sunlight, our planet casts a shadow. And this shadow is visible every night. Every night at sunset is that dark band in the eastern sky. And as the sun sets further and further, that is in the first 10 or 15 minutes after space sunset, this dark band rises up higher in the eastern sky. It's so easy, it's so fascinating, and I don't think one person in 10,000 is aware of it. [00:40:56] Speaker C: You're a fascinating man, Bob Berman, and I really appreciate you coming on. You've. You got of wedded the interest of people, even people who are just casually interested in the subject, or maybe not at all. Plus, you must have been. I know you've been a great joy to people who have investigated it a little more thoroughly than that, but I hope we, I hope we could talk and maybe we talk about the things to look for in the winter sky and then, or the fall sky, you come back for the winter sky and the spring sky and the whole business, but it's been a joy too. It's been a joy talking with you. Bob, thanks a million. [00:41:26] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:41:27] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:41:27] Speaker D: My pleasure. [00:41:28] Speaker C: Bob Berman, who's, who's. The ending of the book is called Secrets of the Night sky and it's, it's, it's a great book. Even for the casual, a person who's casually interested in a subject, it's bound to get you. Really gets you going. Beautifully illustrated color photographs and all kinds of stuff. And Bob writes in a very simple kind of way that even, as I mentioned, really ignorant people like me, ignorant in the ways of astronomy, find just intriguing. So many interesting ideas that really get you going. Anyway, nice to have you with us. We'll take some calls. So you know it's time for your Nathan show. When the day to day world starts. [00:42:13] Speaker B: To drive you insane and you feel. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Like you're riding on a runaway train, norm makes you laugh and keep spirits brave. [00:42:24] Speaker B: Tune in 10:30 and call Norms tonight. [00:42:28] Speaker C: Hey, hey. Out there in radio land. [00:42:32] Speaker B: You tuned in on Nathan and he's at your command. So stay here and listen. Then you'll understand. [00:42:41] Speaker D: You got habit you'll never outgrown. But right now, no Nathan show. [00:42:49] Speaker B: I said right now. Oh, here's. [00:42:56] Speaker C: Oh my goodness sakes. Here he is. Me. The very lovely and exciting me. Okay, we'll take some calls. [00:43:03] Speaker D: Medford name is John Sanderson. I want to wish him happy birthday because he's 86 or something like that. [00:43:09] Speaker C: Today, this very day. You're talking about Sunday or Monday? What? What? [00:43:13] Speaker D: Sunday. [00:43:14] Speaker C: Okay. His birthday. July 23rd. Happy birthday, big guy. [00:43:18] Speaker D: How you been? [00:43:18] Speaker C: I've been just fine. Fine, thank you. [00:43:20] Speaker D: Bread, socks. Lost. [00:43:22] Speaker C: You noticed that. [00:43:23] Speaker D: I heard that. That's. [00:43:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:25] Speaker D: Breaks my. Breaks my heart. [00:43:28] Speaker C: Okay. What are you doing down at Boca Raton? [00:43:31] Speaker D: I just come out of the pool and I, I. And I wanted to before I turned in for the night because I have to get up and go to work tomorrow. I wanted to check in with you, check in on my people up in Boston and see what's going on. [00:43:42] Speaker C: Everything is going on. You must be. [00:43:44] Speaker D: You must be the dean now up there, aren't you? Of people on the air. [00:43:48] Speaker C: I have been on the air for 712 years and I don't know. [00:43:52] Speaker D: On the air in Boston has been on there longer. [00:43:54] Speaker C: There may be somebody in there. 713 years. No, I. I don't. I don't. I'm not. I. Yes, I think so. I think so. I think a guy, Gus Saunders, who does a cooking show. One of the station. Gus is still does the show. Yes. I think he beats me. He was in before I was. Of course he looks worse than I do. He's already a scribbled up old guy. Fat and really ugly looking. [00:44:16] Speaker D: Well, you know, you eat that much food. [00:44:19] Speaker C: Well, I know that, but sometimes I think age Plays very nasty tricks on some people. It's been very good to me because I'm still a good looking, young, svelte guy. [00:44:29] Speaker D: I know I've had my picture taken with you before. Did you start at where? [00:44:33] Speaker C: Wcop? Yes, my very first job was. Was. It was weekends. Strangely enough, I'm right back to that again. Seems like I haven't made any progress with weekends. Yeah, wcop. That's right. A station that no longer exists. And my, my first major full time job in Boston was wmex. And that station no longer exists. [00:44:55] Speaker D: Right. [00:44:56] Speaker C: Yes, and I can name a whole lot of other places I've been at. None of them exist anymore. [00:45:01] Speaker D: But I think if people up there. You mentioned Norm Nathan. They say sound from the night. [00:45:06] Speaker C: Well, I did do that for. For about 1112 years. Yeah. Way back in the 50s and 60s. [00:45:13] Speaker D: First anchor of the All News. Wei too. [00:45:16] Speaker C: Oh, John, you're gonna do my whole biographical sketch which is really. Which is really boring. I find it even boring to me and I lived it. But I thank you very much. Yes, I did one. When Wei went all news in 19. April 1, 1974, Ben Farnsworth and I were the co anchors of the morning news. And that's true. And we were both just suspended and he's now in New York doing great stuff. [00:45:42] Speaker D: And you're still in Boston? [00:45:44] Speaker C: I'm still in Boston. [00:45:45] Speaker D: I'm down here in Boca. [00:45:46] Speaker C: In Boca Raton. The. The rat's mouth. [00:45:49] Speaker D: The rats. The mouth of the rat. [00:45:51] Speaker C: Mouth of the rat. That's right. [00:45:52] Speaker D: Correct. And I invite everybody come down here. It's wonderful. Nice and hot. [00:45:56] Speaker C: Well, we, we got pretty decent weather. Probably similar right now. Right now it's 75 degrees up here. So it's not too cold. [00:46:03] Speaker D: No, we're probably maybe about 83 right here. Right here, right now. [00:46:08] Speaker C: Well, I appreciate hearing from you, Big John, and I thank you just so darn much. [00:46:12] Speaker D: Okay, Norm, have a good evening. [00:46:13] Speaker C: You too. Thanks a lot. You sounded like you could hardly wait to hang up on me. Okay. 2, 5, 4, 10:30 area code is the very lovely 617. We'll be around till 1 o' clock and love to talk with you. Here's Connie in the Melrose. Hello, Connie. [00:46:31] Speaker B: I'm very nervous. [00:46:33] Speaker C: Well, let's just. Just take a deep breath. Relax. Everything you're doing so far, you're doing just swell. [00:46:38] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I wanted to tell you that you brought an amazing amount of joy into my life since I got hooked on you with all the laughter and handicapped. And I Couldn't wait for you to come on because of all the laughter. Especially the night of Al Jolson, climb up on my knee, Funny boy. [00:47:03] Speaker C: Remember? Yes. [00:47:06] Speaker B: Really? [00:47:06] Speaker C: Oh. [00:47:07] Speaker B: But it seems to me the last few nights that I've been listening, you're getting on to a more serious vein. [00:47:14] Speaker C: Like what? We were talking astronomy and stuff, which is. Which is a fun area. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:19] Speaker C: Which is really kind of fun. What. What other area do you think we were at that was a little too serious? [00:47:24] Speaker B: Oh, I don't. I don't really know, but I just hope that you keep it nice and light. [00:47:29] Speaker C: Well, it is nice and light, but occasionally we want to. I mean, you can take subjects that have some meaning to them and still, you know, light and have fun with it. [00:47:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:37] Speaker C: My goodness. My goodness, Connie. [00:47:39] Speaker B: Well, it seems to me that I'm wrong. I apologize if I'm wrong. I'm being. [00:47:45] Speaker C: Hold on. Hold on a minute. Let me check with the kids in the teen canteen, see if they think you're wrong. All those who think that Connie is wrong, would you. Would you raise your hands? Okay. It's the 1-277-93794. Those of you who think she's right, would you raise your hands? Seems to be a draw. Connie. I think you come out right in the middle. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:07] Speaker C: Okay. But we. We. There's no reason you can't have fun with something a little more serious. We just don't yell at each other about political things and that kind of stuff. But talking about the skies and. And space travel and where we might be going in the unit, I think that's kind of fun. I think that's absolutely intriguing. [00:48:23] Speaker B: That's true. But you see, we. It seems that. [00:48:27] Speaker D: So. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Everything is so serious. You can't start your day if you don't read at least about our. Even if you watch TV or you hear it on the radio, at least five murders, you know that. [00:48:36] Speaker C: Well, we're not talking five murders. We're not even talking one murder. Not even a slight slashing of the face. [00:48:43] Speaker B: No, that isn't what I meant. I'm saying there's so much seriousness, and we know we're hearing so much about other space and computer life and sky, thigh and all this and that. [00:48:54] Speaker C: I'm actually interested in the world that you live in. I think that is. That is so intriguing. I don't know much about that either. And this Bob Berman was able to explain it in such simple terms that even I could understand. I think that's kind of. That's exciting stuff. [00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it Is. But I guess. Well, what I wanted to say was, I think being handicapped, I look forward to the laughter that we has. Funny things like different ones had caused you and would just. You just get carried away and I got carried away with you when. [00:49:25] Speaker C: Okay. Now we still giggle a whole lot. We do that. Connie, I understand how you feel, and I thank you very much for taking the time to call. You're okay. [00:49:32] Speaker B: Okay. Thank you. And God bless. [00:49:34] Speaker C: God bless you too, Connie. And God bless you, everybody. Everyone. And have a very happy Christmas. When shopping for a vacuum for all the mathematics people. Yeah. Here in New England, China is probably directly below us. If we could drill a hole straight down. So people used to say the dot of this whole thing, you're not even a dot. You're nothing. Nothing. I hope you realize that. So many people. Well, in your. In the Boston area, of course, they can't see anything. You look up and, my God, there's so many me lights. I know. There really is. I'm up here in Maine, and of course it's. [00:50:13] Speaker D: We have a few lights. [00:50:14] Speaker C: But now where in Maine are you? I'm in Kittery Point. Oh, Kittery Point. Okay. Because you're. You're in a, you know, somewhat built up area to some point. It's sort of built up. Yeah. There's lights around here, so I can't really. Yeah. Astronomer. I can tell by the way. Yeah. I can tell by the way you talk that you. You know something about what you're saying. You better watch yourself when you start talking and make sense. I don't know what we. I don't. I can't handle it. No, that's different. You're in a pretty area up there too. Well, you. You probably can see where you are, where you live. You probably can see stuff much. To some. To some point. Yeah. To some point. I can't because it's out in the woods. But then again, there are a lot of trees and things that kind of block views. [00:51:00] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:51:00] Speaker C: But I'm right here. The ocean, so. So there you are. You've got a whole clear view out there. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see Jupiter in the southwest skies. Anybody who wants to see Jupiter, follow Don's lead and look in the southwest sky. And apparently, apparently you can't miss it. It's. It's pretty sharp 15 degrees above the horizon right now. Okay. As soon as I get out of here, I'm gonna look. I wonder if I can see it from the WVZ plus but not over the ostentatious parking Lot. Well, I'll tell you, I could go buy that guy's book tomorrow. My God, It's. It's. It's a. It's a fascinating, but it really isn't. He. It's beautifully printed and pictured and sketched and written and everything. It's a. I'm. You know, from. See you. I know you know a lot more about it than I do, but from my viewpoint, it's a great book to start on. And even I think people have a great knowledge of astronomy and stuff. I think the Secrets of the Nights Come By. Bob Berman would be a fun book to have. Yeah, I think you're right. Hey, I think you're right, too, Don. Thank you very much. And Happy Norm. Happy Jupiter Looking. Good night now. Thank you. Okay, Don, let's go to Steve in Melrose. That's where we'll go. That's where we'll go. Yeah. Steve in Melrose. Hi, Steve. [00:52:10] Speaker E: Uncle Norm? [00:52:11] Speaker C: Yes. [00:52:12] Speaker E: How you doing? [00:52:13] Speaker C: Hey, I'm doing okay, Steve. How are you doing? [00:52:15] Speaker E: Remember me? Do you? [00:52:16] Speaker C: Well, so far, it's kind of hard to. Because you haven't. Oh, the wrestling kid. You just sort of dropped out of sight there. [00:52:23] Speaker E: I dropped out of sight because I went on. I went on to a lot of bigger and better things. You know what I'm saying? [00:52:27] Speaker C: Did you give up? I know what you're saying, big guy. You went on to bigger and better things, and that's what. That's what you're saying. [00:52:32] Speaker E: I know you're saying, I forgot about Norm, Nathan. [00:52:34] Speaker C: Oh, did you forget about wrestling, too? [00:52:36] Speaker E: No. No. [00:52:37] Speaker C: You still. Are you still wrestling? [00:52:39] Speaker E: I'm still doing it, yes. I'm still doing. I've switched to the managing side now. [00:52:42] Speaker C: Oh, you're managing now? Why? [00:52:44] Speaker E: Did. You know. [00:52:44] Speaker C: Why did you do that? You find that you were washed up as a wrestler yourself, you know. [00:52:49] Speaker E: You know. Uncle Norm, listen. [00:52:50] Speaker C: All right. Okay. [00:52:52] Speaker E: No, I. I just. I figured that if it would. I did a managing show where I managed. Where I walked on the ringside with somebody and I. I had more fun doing that than actually wrestling. [00:53:01] Speaker C: Oh, good. [00:53:02] Speaker E: So we picked up. We picked up a. We picked it up as a. As a manager thing, and we just started doing that. And it's just, you know, every place we go, we're getting Cokes thrown at us and stuff, so. [00:53:11] Speaker C: And I love it. Wait a minute. Every place you go, you get Cokes thrown at you? [00:53:15] Speaker E: Cokes thrown at me? Yeah. [00:53:16] Speaker C: And you as a manager, do they hate managers that much? [00:53:19] Speaker E: Well, I go out and I get the crowd going, you know, I get the crowd to hate me. That's my. My goal, you know, every crowd, I. Every time I walk out, if I either. If I walk out with. I manage two guys, right? Now, the Pirate and I manage zero. [00:53:34] Speaker C: Now, are these both. They're both villains, they're both bad guys. [00:53:37] Speaker E: Yes, they're both. [00:53:38] Speaker C: Okay, they're both bad guys. So you come out now. How do you get the crowd angry and get them all souped up for the bad guys? [00:53:44] Speaker E: Well, I'll pick. I'll pick it. I'll pick somebody out in the crowd. All right? Usually when I walk into a building, I'll look around and I'll be like, all right, that guy right there, he's going to be involved in this, so I'll pick on him. The person who's involved, I walk right over and I go, shut up. [00:53:55] Speaker C: Sit down. [00:53:56] Speaker E: And I just get it. And then the whole crowd, when I'm walking by will give me. Give me the crap. [00:54:00] Speaker C: Now, do you put your life in danger or anything? Did they ever attack you physically? [00:54:04] Speaker E: I've been attacked before, yes. Walking out. Walking out of a. Out of a building I've been in, I've been attacked by Lage, a wrestle who came in named Lage. [00:54:15] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:54:15] Speaker E: So he attacked me. And I didn't know. I didn't. You know, I didn't. We didn't know. Know what this kid was doing, and he attacked me. And then afterwards, I see him in the locker room three months later, I'm. [00:54:25] Speaker D: Like, aren't you the kid that. [00:54:26] Speaker E: That attacked me at that time? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:54:30] Speaker C: And then you're all friends again or something. After. [00:54:32] Speaker E: After he attacked me, he wanted to get into professional wrestling, so I was. [00:54:35] Speaker C: Like, all right, you know, that's kind of funny. Now, how are your. Your two wrestlers doing? [00:54:40] Speaker E: My two wrestlers, the Pirates, not doing too bad. Zero is a zero. [00:54:45] Speaker D: I mean, he's. [00:54:47] Speaker E: He's a. I got another guy I managed, Mike Morrison, who's not doing too shabby. He's pretty good. [00:54:53] Speaker D: The Pirate, you know, they're pretty good. [00:54:55] Speaker E: I'm going for bigger and better things, though, you know? [00:54:58] Speaker C: What are you going for? What's. What? [00:54:59] Speaker E: Well, I'm back up in this area. I'm gonna be doing a lot of work with the greatest wrestling organization in this area. That's the Century Wrestling alliance, the cwa. You see. You see a post that says cwa, you go out and see that show. You're gonna get a great professional wrestling show. [00:55:12] Speaker C: Really? [00:55:12] Speaker E: Yes, you are. You're gonna get. They have shooting stars. Nothing but shooting stars in this organization. [00:55:16] Speaker C: Yeah. And. And the. This is the headquarters of. Right in this area. [00:55:19] Speaker E: Yes, in this area. It is nothing but shooting stars. Norm, these people are going to be. They're the greatest wrestlers I think I've seen in a while. [00:55:24] Speaker C: Where can you see these wrestlers? [00:55:26] Speaker E: They're everywhere. They're the local organization who goes to the high schools and everything like that. Yeah, and they're great. They really are. You got some great wrestlers. You got the Dungeon Master. [00:55:34] Speaker D: Who's. [00:55:35] Speaker E: I've. I. Keep away from this man. You got the Boston Bad Boy, Tony Rumble, Tony Atlas. I mean, you're gonna get a good show, Norm. You really are. [00:55:43] Speaker C: Sounds good, you know. [00:55:44] Speaker E: You really are. [00:55:45] Speaker C: I'm so glad to talk to you again. [00:55:46] Speaker E: How's everything with you? [00:55:47] Speaker C: Okay. Last time, one of the first times I talked with you guys, you were. You were still in high school. [00:55:51] Speaker E: I was still in high school and I was doing it. Yep. [00:55:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, that's not that long ago. [00:55:55] Speaker E: I'm 22 now. [00:55:57] Speaker C: You're still a young punk. [00:55:59] Speaker E: Well, I'm not a punk anymore. No, no, you. [00:56:01] Speaker C: Oh, I'm just joking. You never were a punk. But. But you're still. Obviously, you're still a young guy. [00:56:07] Speaker E: You do a lot of growing up when you go to hotel, at hotel, living out of a suitcase. You really do. [00:56:11] Speaker C: Yes. You do a lot of traveling. Your folks miss you a lot. They like what you're doing. Oh, they're glad I'm out of here. [00:56:15] Speaker E: What, are you kidding me? Like, oh, you're back. [00:56:19] Speaker C: Oh, they said. They said we were thinking of moving and that. Telling you the forwarding address. And we've rented out your room, so get out of here. Is it that serious? [00:56:26] Speaker E: Well, my parents. My parents. I talked to my parents one night. I was out in Chicago, the Windy City out in Chicago, and I was talking to them. They go, oh, we miss you and all this stuff. And I had a show that the next night. So I flew them out for the show, the tickets, put them up and everything. [00:56:40] Speaker C: What a. Hey, what a nice sport you are, big guy. [00:56:43] Speaker E: So I, you know, that. That was great having them there with me. [00:56:46] Speaker C: Oh, that's r. Oh, they must have been so proud. [00:56:48] Speaker E: Oh, they're just. They're worried I'm going to get hurt, you know. [00:56:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm worried that you're going to get hurt, too. You go into a crowd, you start picking on people. You're kind of asking for trouble there, Steve. You. You. I think of you. Kind of my son too. So be careful. [00:57:01] Speaker E: I'd never let you down, uncle. [00:57:02] Speaker C: Don't know that. Please, please don't. Because I count on you. [00:57:05] Speaker E: I'm the greatest manager to walk the face of the earth. You're the greatest radio broadcaster that ever was. And we never will be. [00:57:11] Speaker C: Would you believe that the two of us now, due to the face, the gods have paired us together in one amazing earth shaking broadcast. [00:57:20] Speaker E: How has it brought us together? Oh, you know what I'm saying, brother. [00:57:23] Speaker C: I know. I know what you're saying, pal. [00:57:25] Speaker E: They brought us together. [00:57:26] Speaker C: Okay. And keep in touch, Steve. [00:57:29] Speaker E: I will. I'll give you a buzz. I'm home for about a month now. I'll give you a buzz before I leave again. [00:57:32] Speaker C: Okay, Thanks a lot. [00:57:33] Speaker E: All right, Uncle Norm. You'll be good. [00:57:34] Speaker C: You too. [00:57:35] Speaker E: Okay. [00:57:37] Speaker C: That's kind of funny. He was. Steve would set up wrestling bouts, you know, in his own. Or either in his own yard, I forgot, or. Or yards near him. And Jay's just been crazy about the whole wrestling field ever since he was in high school and now. And he went into wrestling. He studied wrestling for a while. Professional professional wrestling. I was going to do that and I was. Become a manager. He's really a nice. He's quite a nice kid. It's good to hear. Well, you know how darn nice it is to talk to you, you little adorable cutie. [00:58:04] Speaker B: You mentioned Dorothy Parker last night. I don't know, perhaps I'm repeating something that you said after I fell asleep. But one of my favorite stories about Dorothy Parker is when she was a critic on the New Yorker and she was reviewing one of Katharine Hepburn's early plays and said she ran the gamut of emotion from A to B. [00:58:29] Speaker C: That's right. [00:58:29] Speaker D: I remember that too. [00:58:31] Speaker C: One of the quotes that we mentioned here yesterday was. I had on. Was it yesterday or the day before Any. Was a fellow who put together these, you know, interesting quotes by a lot of people, funny lines and all that. And one other quote that he had for Dorothy Parker, the great critic and writer and stuff, was she said, if all the girls who went to the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. [00:58:57] Speaker B: She also, when she was challenged to use the word horticulture in a sentence, said, you can lead a horticulture, but you cannot make her think. [00:59:09] Speaker C: That's fantastic. That's. That's really great. [00:59:12] Speaker B: And when she was reviewing a book by A.A. melnay. You remember A House on Poopoon from your childhood? [00:59:18] Speaker C: Oh, yes. [00:59:21] Speaker B: She Said at this point, constant weed have float up. [00:59:25] Speaker C: All right, now, that's why we'd have thrown up. No, that's fine. She was. She had some great stuff and I guess I was her. My friend Helena from Belmont was talking about her too, and was mentioning the Viking book, was it, or something. A Complete book of Magus and complete of Dorothy. You have that. Of Dorothy Thompson's writings. I do want to kind of go over them again because I. I think she just wrote so beautifully with so much fun. And we're talking about the old Algonquin Round Table at the Algonquin Hotel in New York where she and the Robert Benchley and who was a George S. Kaufman and a whole like about 20 or 30 of these incredible brains would gather all the time and sit around and talk with each other. And I guess there was a lot of. A lot of nastiness in a way, too, because a lot of them weren't all that great, you know, so far as social relations were concerned. But they have tremendous brains and wit and. But just to sit there. Imagine if you could press a button and be sitting at the Algonquin Round Table with these people, going to recreate those moments. Wouldn't that be something? [01:00:33] Speaker B: Oh, would be great. I have a book about them and it's called Four Married Gentlemen and One Lady. [01:00:40] Speaker C: Oh, really? [01:00:42] Speaker B: Let's see. I've had it sometimes I could send it to you if you'd like to have it. [01:00:46] Speaker C: Would you do. Would you do that for me? [01:00:48] Speaker B: Let me get a pencil here and get you. [01:00:50] Speaker C: Okay, fair enough. I'm willing to hang in for a pencil like that. Yeah, sure. [01:00:56] Speaker B: Okay. [01:00:56] Speaker C: Okay. You have a pencil already? [01:00:58] Speaker D: Yes, I do. [01:00:59] Speaker C: Okay. Norm Nathan. N A, T, H, A. And you know that part anyway. Yes. Okay. WBZ radio. Busy radio. We should have put radio, because if it gets into television, as you know, on the WBC television side, they don't come closer and they. They don't know how to read there, so they won't even recognize it as a book. And who knows what they'll do with it. Probably slice it up and serve it in the cafeteria. So make sure It's WBZ radio. 1170. 1170 Soldiers Field Road. Field Road. In the heart of the brothel country. I made that up. Trying to make this place look more interesting than it really is. Boston. Boston, Massachusetts. Course 02134. 02134. Oh, that would be so nice if you would do that, James. [01:01:58] Speaker B: I'll do that. I'll send that off tomorrow. [01:02:00] Speaker C: Hey, you're okay, big lady. [01:02:03] Speaker B: Oh, one more thing about Darth. I forget where I saw this, but I'd like this. One friend of hers came back from London, and she was showing off a little and using a British accent, you know. And she kept referring to her schedule, and her schedule wouldn't allow her to do this and wouldn't allow that. [01:02:20] Speaker C: Funny. [01:02:21] Speaker D: Dorothy said, oh, skit. [01:02:26] Speaker C: I don't know how many got that, but maybe you better not explain it. But that's very, very funny, too. Oh, I admire. I admire witty people who. Sharp people, bright people. They're so much fun, you know, because most of the time you talk with people and they use every cliche like, boy, I bet it's hot enough for you, huh? And then they laugh like they just thought of some brilliant line. And most of the time, we. I mean, I suppose we all do that. We all go through life saying these inane, banal things that have been said. Banal. A banal. I'd be dying, dumb things. Anyway, you see them over and over again, like we. And here are these people who come up with new thoughts all the time. What a lovely thing. [01:03:06] Speaker B: Wonderful. [01:03:07] Speaker C: Okay, I'll look for the book, Jane. [01:03:09] Speaker B: All right, Norm. [01:03:10] Speaker C: Hey, thanks so much. [01:03:11] Speaker B: Talk to you. Bye. [01:03:12] Speaker C: Bye. Bye. I love to talk about how. How people come up with stupid blinds because that. That makes me feel like I come up only with brilliant ones. And that's not. That's really not true either. Okay. Helen and Maud. Hey, how you doing, Helen? [01:03:26] Speaker B: Oh, great. And this is the first time I've ever called you, but I listen to you a lot. I just wanted to tell you that I looked out the window to the southwest. [01:03:37] Speaker C: You saw Jupiter? [01:03:38] Speaker B: No, I couldn't see anything. I guess too many trees are in the way. [01:03:42] Speaker C: Oh, I'm so sorry. [01:03:43] Speaker B: But this is the good part. I just came from the Southwest. I just came home. Today I was in Arizona and on our way back from seeing the sunset at Grand Canyon, we stopped. We had to stop because the sky was so beautiful. And we did see Jupiter. Oh, you did see Jupiter in Arizona? [01:04:05] Speaker C: Yeah. You had. You had to go all the way to Arizona in the Grand Canyon to see Jupiter? No, but that is. That is. That is a great place to see it because the land is generally so flat. [01:04:15] Speaker B: Yes. Within this particular, particular section, it was. Yes. [01:04:18] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Because as they. They call, I guess, Montana, even in the hilly section that is the western part of Montana, which is the Rockies, they still call that the land of the Big Sky. [01:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:28] Speaker C: And until you go to that part of the country. That, that, that may not mean anything to that saying, but suddenly there's sky all over the place. [01:04:37] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. [01:04:38] Speaker C: Oh, that's beautiful. Did you, you must have enjoyed yourself. [01:04:41] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Just one more thing. [01:04:43] Speaker C: You can even do two more things. It's okay. [01:04:45] Speaker B: Oh great. Well, you know, you're always mentioning different stations here in the west, in the east and they all begin with W out there they all begin with K. Do you know what the K stands for? [01:04:58] Speaker C: I don't. No, I don't know that it stands for anything. I think different parts of the country stations begin with different letters just to identify where they are. For example, we have a couple of stations in the, in the eastern part that do begin with K also but that's, that's because they go back that far like kyw, Philadelphia, kdka, Pittsburgh. But aside from that it's mostly W here, K there. Canada, they begin with C. Mexico, the call letters begin with X. You know, it's just, it's to identify geographical areas. There's nothing terribly significant about it beyond that. [01:05:32] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Well, I'm sorry I didn't hear the astrology program, but I just got in about 8:30, 9:00 clock and, and I. [01:05:42] Speaker C: Was about to mark you absent but you, but you. You're going to pass the course, so don't worry about it. [01:05:46] Speaker B: Okay, thank you. [01:05:47] Speaker C: Hey, thanks Ellen. [01:05:48] Speaker B: You're welcome. [01:05:49] Speaker C: Bye bye. [01:05:49] Speaker B: Bye. [01:05:50] Speaker C: Take some more calls in a bit. 2, 5, 4, 10:30. It's so interesting. Thank you. I had a couple fiddly jokes and this lady that several callers ago, you had her, hers are really great. Okay, I'm ready for your jokes and then. Well then I want to say something else. You've got this 11 year old niece of yours. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Hillary is fantastic. She is. And she, she's a. She's such a bright little kid. Most little bright little kid. Really. Kids really bother me because I think boy is he obnoxious. But this one. Yeah, isn't that obnoxious about it? You just still sound sweet and very bright. I'm glad you think that highly of a member of my family. Now on the astrology program here reminded me of World War II when I was in the 1st Marine Division aboard ship in the South Pacific floating all over the place. And of course your ship is totally dark at night so you're not bothered by other lights and you can see the sky from one end to the other and there is nothing like it. And those 3,000 stars you could see at one time, he talked about. I've seen those. And it's. It's something you never forget. Oh, I know. That is best said. It's one of the. At least one of the. The nice byproducts of what had to be a. An awful experience for you. Really a rough experience back then. Oh, it came out okay, though, I guess. [01:07:15] Speaker E: I guess. [01:07:15] Speaker C: I guess we know. We know what the final chapter was. Here's my nickel and dime jokes. Okay. Okay. I'd say the best way to serve spinach is to someone else. Hey. The best way to serve spinach is to someone else. Yes, sir. Okay. [01:07:33] Speaker D: Number two. [01:07:34] Speaker C: Okay. A couple fellas were talking about someone who was deceased. And one of them was a little outspoken on his delight. Dislike for him and. And the other one said, now, you shouldn't say anything about the dead, but good. So the first guy said, okay, he's dead. Good. Now I'll finish. I'll finish with this and you'll be glad. Okay. Is that the last one that you. Ahead. Very short one here. Okay. Another one. Okay. Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. That sounds like. It sounds like a Yogi Bear thing where he was the one who said, it's. It's deja vu all over again. That's same. That same kind of line. Hey, Bill, where. Where are you in Michigan? Houghton Lake, about 100 miles north of our state capital of Lansing. Oh, yes, yes, yes, I recall. I recall. I recall. Not because I've been there, because I had never have we got it okay. Because we talked before and you mentioned that. That area up there. Yes, it's delightful. And you're delightful too, and I thank you very much, Big Bill. Thanks again. Take care. Bye. Bye. Okay, 2, 5, 4, 10 30. We have. It's about quarter to 1 1. There's no one in this place except, let's see those of us having fun anyway. 2, 5, 4, 10:30, area code 617. Love to hear from you. We'll be out just for another 15 minutes or so. Bob Raleigh will keep you company during the rest of the night. So if you feel like talking right now to me, that would be nice. Here's a story on what is a bagel. Did you ever wonder about that? You probably never wondered about that, Earl. Don't, don't, don't. Don't look at me like that. Oh, yeah, I've often wondered. You're just. You're just coming on to me when you do that bagel. Appears to be making a place for itself inside America's pantry because it used to be pretty much of an ethnic food, the bagel. But I guess everybody knows like pokey rolls and bagels and all that kind of stuff kind of has moved into the general middle of the road category. According to the. There's a trade journal called Modern Baking that's a trade journal for everything, isn't there? No matter what business you're in, there's a trade journal at least anyway, according to that to Modern Baking, at least half of all Americans know what a bagel is. Which may, it may seem like even more ought to know. But 20 years ago in the 80s, well I guess that's not 20 years ago. 10 years ago, only 20% knew what a bagel was. Now half the people know what it is. So start to, starting to move in. There's probably a message here and I'm not quite sure what it is. And if I knew what it was, I'm not sure I'd even care. But for those who don't know, a bagel is 11 donut shaped roll often eaten with cream cheese. Some people put little stakes in their lawn and shoot bagels at it. But then again, maybe, maybe not too many people do that. Now that I think of it, the origin of the bagel is in dispute. One story says a Jewish baker in Austria created the ring shaped roll in 1683 to resemble a stirrup to pay tribute to the horse crazy king of Poland. Another account holds that bagels were designed as edible teething rings for infants in 17th century Poland. I guess most people seem to feel that that's where the, the origin was in Poland. Today, bagels are used for breakfast, bread, lunchtime sandwiches and snacks. Excuse me, hold on a second. It wasn't as interesting as I thought it might be. So what I do is in order not, not to allow this to fall into the hat the hands of some unsuspecting broadcaster, we just get rid of it totally right at that point. Okay, let me hear from you. Anyway, this is kind of quiet now. If you care to call, that'd be good. Boy, I'd love to hear from you. Oh golly, Jez, I would. Oh yes, who I mention that because this, I guess this past week she joined a select group of entertainers who as. Who as the only woman to won an Oscar, Emmy, Grammy and a Tony, finally gotten a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. I was trying to think of who the others were. The Oscar, of course, the movies, the Emmy for television Grammy for records and a Tony for Broadway. For Broadway. Helen Hayes was another one, wasn't she? I think it was Helen Hayes and she won a Grammy. That is a record thing. Not for having sung anything, but for having did a narration that was recorded, I guess. But I think there might have been a couple of others too. I don't know if you know the answer to that. Maybe give me a call in the next couple of minutes and let me know. I'd forgotten who else did that, but isn't that something? I mean, most of us go through life without winning anything. And here's a lady that's wonderful, won every one of those things. And I don't know how well, well known she is. I suspect she's not, she's not all that well known. Okay, let me take one more call before we say goodbye. Karen is out in Ohio and I'm glad to talk with you. Karen. [01:13:04] Speaker B: Hi, Norm, how you doing? [01:13:05] Speaker C: I'm doing okay. Where, where in Ohio are you, Ms. Karen? [01:13:08] Speaker B: Toledo. [01:13:09] Speaker C: Toledo. [01:13:10] Speaker B: I just want to give my sympathies about your wife's death. [01:13:13] Speaker C: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate, appreciate that. [01:13:15] Speaker B: I just happen to hear a commercialman 6, 617 area. I just have to remember the two 5, 4, is that the right number? [01:13:25] Speaker C: 2, 5, 4, 10, 330254, 1030 is absolutely correct. And 617 is the area code. That's correct, yes. [01:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I just have my little portable radio on my hip I was listening to before you go off the air because I know you go off at once. [01:13:38] Speaker C: Yeah, we go off there in just a few minutes as much. Matter of fact, you're in Toledo, is that what you said? [01:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Huh. [01:13:43] Speaker C: Do they still make lots of scales in Toledo? I guess you don't know, eh? I don't know. You know, you're a Toledo correspondent. If you could check that out, we'd appreciate it. [01:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:54] Speaker C: Well, what do you, what do you do in Toledo? [01:13:56] Speaker B: I am a volunteer worker. [01:13:59] Speaker C: For what? [01:14:00] Speaker B: Over at my church in St. PIs and I sing in the funeral where I do funerals and stuff. I'm on all the time. [01:14:07] Speaker C: Oh, that must be a cheery kind of thing to do. [01:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm used to it. I got seven years experience. [01:14:13] Speaker C: Yeah. So deaths don't mean anything to you, say, well, there's another death. Well, too bad. [01:14:18] Speaker B: Well, it's part of life, I, I guess. How much cancer did your wife die of? [01:14:23] Speaker C: Pardon me? [01:14:24] Speaker B: What kind of cancer did she? [01:14:25] Speaker C: Oh, I, I, I just soon not go through all that. That's Kind of a grim subject, don't you think, to. To dissect the kind of cancer she died of? It was cancer and she died almost four years ago. So it's, it's a while back. [01:14:37] Speaker B: Been four years already. [01:14:39] Speaker C: Yeah. November. November will be four years. That's right. [01:14:42] Speaker B: Wow. [01:14:42] Speaker C: No, I appreciate you asking but you can understand why I don't want to get into a whole medical thing about that. It's, it's. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I mean it mattered at the time but right now it really doesn't matter at all. I hope you're healthy and everything and I hope you have not too many funerals sing it. Although you probably would like them. You never, you never know and you're probably looking forward. Do you look at the obituary column. [01:15:04] Speaker B: And say first thing I looked at, I'm on funeral car. I set the funeral mass up at my church. [01:15:09] Speaker C: So. So you look at the, you look at the obituary say hey, look at this death. I'm going to have a chance to sing again. Yeah, how about that? And you get all you. Are you really getting excited about that? [01:15:19] Speaker B: Oh God, you're glad I got to talking person finally. [01:15:22] Speaker C: Well, I bless to Karen. Anyway, it's about time to sign the program off and I think not a moment too soon. [01:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:28] Speaker C: So thanks. Thanks a lot for calling. That's really nice. Oh geez. Anyway, we're coming up to 1:00 clock here at the WBZ. She's not a really cheerful of us is the first thing I look I look at is the is the obituary Jay Whoopee do. Oh look at this. I'm gonna be singing I'm on call. Anyway, on behalf of of all of us here, Hope Shower and the lovely Marilyn G. Myself, the almost good looking Norm Nathan person. Have a good week. We'll see you the end of the week. Won't that be nice? [01:15:58] Speaker A: Ah, yes, yes it would be Norm. And we all couldn't wait. Without further ado, can you guess the voice in this commercial for CVS photo? [01:16:07] Speaker C: Be a happy birthday. [01:16:08] Speaker D: Happy birthday to you. [01:16:11] Speaker C: $10 for noise makers because 158 year olds just aren't listening loud enough. [01:16:15] Speaker D: Happy birthday dear Bobby. [01:16:18] Speaker C: $20 for a cake that should say Bobby, not Robbie. $15 for helium balloons. While birthdays can be expensive, the pictures from them don't have to be. Not with CVS photo finishing. CVS always offers the choice of a free second set of four inch jumbo prints or a free roll of film. CVS even offers a free 5x7 color enlargement coupon every day so you'll have money left over for things like Happy birthday to you. More birthdays, cvs. Just what you're looking for. [01:16:53] Speaker A: Now maybe that wasn't much of a test, but leave a comment below with your answer. Closing the vault and leaving this world a little sillier than we found it. [01:17:01] Speaker C: 4. [01:17:02] Speaker A: Bob Berman Secrets of the Night Sky William Morrow Publishing. Astronomy and astronomers, the Perseid meteor showers, synthetic nights, the subtlety of changes. Full moon callers is a real thing, by the way. I disagree with Bob on that. I can document it, definitely. Two days before and two days after it can last. Absolutely true. Having taken calls for Norm and David Brudnoy and Bob Raleigh and oh, countless of other Peter Mead and John Keller and Lavelle diet and oh yeah, it's true. It really is. Old myths, the space shuttle. Unpeopled probes. Never what it is. But what was the northern lights, excited atoms, storms on the sun, blue moons, Antares, the Twilight Wedge. Linda Chase and Dave Currier. Back from where we started. Wcop, wmex Sounds in the Night, Wei Ben Farnsworth. Norm Bringing amazing amounts of joy to listeners lives the kids in the teen canteen. The world that you live in. Guy Fi shopping for a vacuum. Talking and making sense. Plush, but not overly ostentatious. The Pirate Zero and Mike Morrison getting attacked by La Cage. The CWA Century Wrestling alliance. The Dungeon Master, the Boston Bad Boy, Tony Rumble, Tony Ellis, the Fates and the Gods. Dorothy Parker, Signal Drift. The folks at WBZ TV who can't read Brothel country schedules. Norm's niece Hillary. Nickel and dime jokes, bagels, Modern baking trade publication on call for for the funeral choir, Steve the wrestling manager. Kid from Melrose Hope Shower. Jack Hart. Marilyn Gorelnick. And the man who will always be our dean of Boston broadcasting, Norm Nathan. I'm Tony Nesbitt. [01:19:08] Speaker C: 1170. 1170 Soldiers Field Road. Field Road in the heart of the brothel country. I made that up. I'm trying to make this place look more interesting than it really is.