Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Two super entertaining hours from the weekend of October 7 and 8th, 1995 comprises today's withdrawal from the vault of silliness. The title tiny, Sandy and Normie, Eddie Leclair and Hope Schauer were producing. Now, before I get to the details, I want to mention here at the top a few ways you may support the show. Patreon, my distributor castos, and buy me a coffee. The wonderful Fred from Medford, whom you've heard many times on these shows, was very generous with the Java and kept me caffeinated this week. Thank you, Fred. To help, all you must do is check out the links below in ye Olde description box. It was a great month, listener and subscriber wise, and it would be just so darn nice to keep that going by liking, subscribing and sharing from whichever platform you obtain your weekly dose of the silly. In the next couple of weeks, I hope to have some additional ways to contribute, including merch. Okay, as I mentioned, the title of this is Tiny, Sandy and Normie. It all begins with Jack Hart reading a commercial for the Family channel and then norm with a sly line. Now it's on to the guests from Spooky world, America's horror theme park. We have David Daunton, who was one of the actors from an american werewolf in London, and Kane Hodder, who played jason from at the time, the last three Friday the 13th films. Then an absolutely fascinating interview with the one and only Tiny Tim. Not only does he impress with his incredible musical knowledge, he sings and so does norm. And at one point after the interview, we hear tiny Tim again because he called back.
Other calls taken throughout were from Peggy, Don, Nancy, Generosa, Helene, Fred, Kay, I believe, and two callers which will remain unidentified. Jack is back with some traffic and his sponsor, Silver Lake Dodge. We now mosey our way to October 8 with our guest, Sandra L. Beckwith, author of why can't a Man Be more like a Woman? As well as creator of the Doolittle Report newsletter. Now, the book she wrote, it's not what you think, but it could just be an early indicator of where we end up. She and Norm have a whole lot of fun. We close with some callers in Norm talking about a court tv reporter whom Norm had work with and could not stand. Episode 204, Tiny Sandy and Normie transforms its way to your ears.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Now 100 years old and your neighbors are crazy, you need a good sense of humor. New heart's back weeknights at six and 630 on the Family channel. Hey, here's North Nathan.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: He's my kind of man.
I listen to no Nathan every time I can on WBZ in Boston, the North Nathan show.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Hello. This is that person fabled in legend and song. Norm, nice to be with you. We'll be with you throughout the night talking with some interesting people. Many of the interesting people, as a matter of fact, will be.
[00:03:25] Speaker D: You actually have been here since the beginning, since the first year they opened, and I've been here every year since. And it's a lot of fun. It's a big family park and, you know, you got the haunted hayride type thing, the scary hayride. You have the. The haunted barn, you have the retail section, you've got a bunch of midway games, there's an alien simulator ride. You got all kinds of different entertainers walking around, and you have us signing autographs, meeting people, taking pictures, and basically trying to scare everybody.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: Okay, basically. I love the way you say that.
[00:04:08] Speaker D: Trying out new farm implements as well once in a while.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: I'm sorry, you're trying out new farm lump.
[00:04:13] Speaker D: Sure. You know, you never know what you might need for the next movie.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: That's right. What is the next movie? Will there be another? Oh, sure.
[00:04:20] Speaker D: We're not finished yet.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: How many. How many Friday the 13th movies have there been? I've lost track.
[00:04:26] Speaker D: Well, there has been nine of them so far. Yeah, I played Jason in the last three, and the only person having ever played the character in more than one movie.
So there has been nine. And we're not finished yet. We have. They are writing a script right now for the next installment, which involved Jason.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Meeting Freddie Fondleoch, Wisconsin. Some ginky person there. This is a big timer from Boston. Why do people love to be scared by movies? By riding, like, roller coasters and all that? What's that?
[00:05:04] Speaker D: Well, I think I'll let David answer this one.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Okay. But I mean, you think the last thing in the world anybody would want to do was. Was to frighten themselves. But that apparently, is what people really love to do. Scare me. I'll pay you. I'll pay you money to scare me. I'll go up on a roller coaster. I'll. Anything. Just. Why is that?
[00:05:26] Speaker D: I don't know about the psychological implications. It's just if it's something that you remember, it's very memorable. Thrill seekers, that's what we call them. And I think along in those lines of thrill seekers are frightening experiences. They go back from childhood, being afraid of the dark, being afraid. You know, whatever our fears are, we carry those right into the movie theaters. And a lot of the filmmakers in Hollywood capitalize on those and say, oh, you're a little afraid of this. Well, watch this.
And I'm sticking to that story, okay?
[00:06:02] Speaker B: It's as good as anything I can think of. I remember there was a movie producer once who had these frightening movies, and he added color to them at the theater. He would have an ambulance outside and nurses there for people who had a, you know, who were shocked into total frightening, into not total frightening, you know what I'm saying? Would have to be carted away to the hospital because they were so frightened. It just got to them.
[00:06:29] Speaker D: That was like hype to me.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Oh, it was hype. It was. It was total hype. Of course it was. Yeah. Hey, you guys are great. I really appreciate talking with you, and even though I've asked you some really jumbled up, pretty stupid questions you've come across, and you've made something of me. I'm just so proud.
[00:06:45] Speaker D: Oh, well, thank you very much.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Thank you, Norm. Okay, David Naughton, Kane Hodder, who are both out at the spooky world, the America's newest theme park, which is on Berlin, Massachusetts, been gone for a few years. It's been fun to talk with both of them. We'll talk with Tiny Tim. Not in a minute. We'll talk with Tiny Tim right now, as a matter of fact. Hey, Tiny Tim, are you there?
I bet he is there. I can hear him breathing. Listen, is Tim there?
[00:07:12] Speaker D: Mister Nathan?
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Oh, Tiny Tim. Hi. It's nice to talk with you.
[00:07:16] Speaker D: It's nice working with such great people like Mister Norton, Mister Hunter, and, you know, back here in spooky world again. I'm certainly glad you got the name right because even Jay Leno made a mistake. They call it Spooky Phil.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Oh, Spookyville. Yeah, well, he should know better.
[00:07:32] Speaker D: Spooky world. I heard Brian Gumbel got it wrong, but you got the name right. And thank you. This.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Okay, well, Jay Leno should have known better because he's from around. He's from Massachusetts, so he grew up not far from spooky world.
[00:07:45] Speaker D: Well, maybe it was one of those quick mistakes that he might have known about, but wanted to follow it up anyway. Okay, anyway, you said one thing. You know, I'm very sad. The Red Sox did lose.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: I know. Isn't that, isn't that sad?
[00:08:03] Speaker D: I know. They made one big mistake in night when they traded Babe Ruth. They made another mistake when they traded Wade Boggs.
They gave the Yankees the one two punched. That it's rough enough to have Mattingly as a key player. But when you have someone like Bogs and Mattingly, I mean, well, it speaks for itself. You see what's happening.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: I didn't realize you were a big baseball fan of the Dodgers going back.
[00:08:31] Speaker D: To 43 when Louis Armo and Frenchie Baudigray and Mister DeRosha was managing them. I mean, rest in peace at that time. And I also saw another shocking blow in 1949, when the Red Sox, with two games in front, needed one to win, went into the last three games in the Yankees Stadium. Joe McCarthy was managing them. Recipes. And they lost three games to the Yankees. And they've always, in the last few years, folded in the clutch. They need a clutch man like Wade Boggs who can go under this pressure and really steam them up, you know, when the pressure's on. Look at the Reds. Cincinnati Reds has all experienced players going into these playoffs. And that's what you need, players who've been there before.
The mistake of trading Wade Boggs has paid off again in their loss tonight. They need a key man, like an Ed Stankey or Maury Wills or what's his name, Billy Martin may rest in peace, or even this guy Wilson, who came from the Mets at play for Toronto for a while.
You need that key player, that key one who really revs them up. I don't care if you have mantle, Garrick and everyone on the team. You must have a man like Rizzuto, a hustler who sparks up the club. And that's what the Red Sox didn't have.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Well, we're also sick of saying, wait till next year. The only problem is a lot of people here.
[00:10:03] Speaker D: This is Sherman. You know, the head man here says it is okay.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. It is right in central Massachusetts, which means it's not far from either side of the state. Whether they're coming from the western side and have to go east or from the eastern side here on the Boston area going west. And business. Business seems to be pretty good there, considering that the spooky world is. Has only been in business how long? It's only been a few years.
[00:10:28] Speaker D: Five years. It's about 40 minutes from Boston.
And basically, you know, I can't complain. It's been wonderful to me. I'm only here till the 14th next Saturday. Then I go to the new spooky world in Minneapolis. The spooky world has done so well in the past that they can afford to open another one. And there are rumors. I'm not sure how true this is, but there are rumors now. It's expanding to Dallas next year, but that is not for sure yet.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: Okay. But they have. Is this the first year for their expansion into Minneapolis?
[00:11:03] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Isn't that something after just really a few years?
[00:11:07] Speaker D: Yeah. I have to go out there next week on the 15th for the closing two weeks.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Okay. We get into not so much Minnesota. We do get to parts of Illinois and Wisconsin, which is sort of in that area anyway. And so I hope a lot of people out there will pass the word to. To people who are in the midwest who might want to take that in. And this will be a copy of the spooky world that began here in Massachusetts.
[00:11:33] Speaker D: Yeah. I'll be out there with.
Linda Blair will be out there, and also Bobby Pickett will be coming back here for the next two weeks from the 15th to Halloween. And so it's just a pretty exciting lineup again for last year in July of 94, that I was staying in Des Moines, Iowa. Got the name of the hotel, came over with her ex boyfriend, rode all the way from Minnesota, then invited, then, you know, hired me to do a video last September, fell in love.
I didn't see my wife anyway, too much. The second wife, she gave me divorce in June, and I married her in August.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Do you feel that your first two divorces were your fault? You seem to be suggesting that.
[00:12:23] Speaker D: Well, I think in marriage. I think in marriage, where I'm concerned, it's not easy to live with me. And basically, you know, I know sometimes, I don't know. What's the word? Maybe I belong in spooky. Well, I get a little neurotic, you know, if this doesn't look right, if that doesn't look right, you know, so, you know, I can get temperamental. And sometimes they cheat on me. They're. Both wives cheated on me in the past, you know, I can't. I can't. If I cheated on both wives first, then I would have said, sue me and take every cent you got. But both of them committed adultery on me in the marriages. Miss sue so far has been very faithful, and she knows I'm impotent, you know, at least 99%. And basically, she doesn't mind it right now. And so as long as she teach me the way it is, I have no complaints.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: That's kind of interesting. I've never heard. I've never heard you say that before. You say 99% impotence, so you're not totally 91%.
[00:13:28] Speaker D: Really. She has to make the initiative, and she does, and she's very nice that way. And not much happens, but there is a slight thrill, you know, but she doesn't care. She just loves me so much. I mean, she used to adore me before she met me at twelve years old. She. I used to be her idol. And she was very happy that she married a dream.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Now, you. Have you changed much your own personality since your marriage to miss Vicki on the Johnny Carson show way, way back. Are you still pretty much the same kind of person?
[00:14:03] Speaker D: Well, I can say I believe I am.
I've been saying the same things now I've been saying 26 years ago, you know, only the years have gone on and. But the same songs, the same habits, you know, you do your best and you pray for the rest. Okay, but one other thing I want to say. You also mentioned something I don't want to let go to the sahara before. Yeah, and I think you initiated something. Listen, Nathan, that. That's not been mentioned too much. There should be an award for stuntmen.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Oh, yes, I think so, too. I know you know it because I have a feeling you know every one of these old songs. One was, uh, the roses all envy the bloom of your cheeks and the sun even envies your smile. Anyway, the name of the song was the world will be jealous of me.
[00:14:56] Speaker D: Just hold the fall. Oh, just a bit of this song. Whatever. I remember the word the roman envy.
But with one word of sigh, let them all you be mine. All the world will be jealous of me.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: That's right. I love that song. There was another one that we do here, I think I sing over the original old orthoacoustic record of it is. All day long I jump and run about. You can always hear me shouting out, hello, bluebird. You know that one?
[00:15:39] Speaker D: No, I don't. Who sang that?
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Boy, I can't remember.
[00:15:43] Speaker D: All the world will be jealous of me was written by Ernest R. Ball and J. Karen Brennan.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Now, ball what? Now, he, Ball wrote something else that's well known. I can't think of what.
[00:15:54] Speaker D: Well, he wrote love me and the world is mine.
He wrote let the rest of the world go by.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Oh, let the rest of the world go by.
[00:16:04] Speaker D: He wrote when irish eyes are smiling. Mother McCree had, of course, songs that are not that well known, as you mentioned. But there were still great songs. Songs like, you planted a rose in the garden of love.
He wrote a song called which Henry Burr sang in 1916.
You're making a miser of me.
I can't get enough of your kisses. I'm counting the few that you gave.
I gloat all the while over each little smile. That made me forever your slave.
I save every letter you send me. I hide them when no one can see.
And the more love you give me, the more love I crave. You're making a miser of me.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: That's great. I love it.
[00:17:15] Speaker D: He sang in 1915. He was the Bing Crosby without electric.
There was no electric.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: I love that. I remember when I was a kid, we used to listen to. You mentioned Al Jolson, who did, of course, a lot of songs. He would whistle or he would cry a lot. Well, Sonny boy, this, this. I remember this. I remember digging up a record by a man named I.
It wasn't Al Jolson. It was somebody else who did Sonny boy.
[00:17:43] Speaker D: It wasn't Irving Kaufman.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: Irving Kaufman, that's right. And I remember playing that on one of these wind up old Victrolas. And my uncle coming into the room and saying, don't play that one. Play Al Jolson. Cause he cries on the record. And I remember that one thing I've never understood about Sonny boy. Says, climb upon my knees, sonny boy, even though you're only three. Sunny boy, there's no way. And so on. And then at the end he says, and the angels grew lonely. And they took you because they were lonely. So what I'm wondering about is how could he climb upon this guy's knee if apparently the kid was dead?
I never could reconcile that whole song. It didn't make any sense.
At the beginning he says, can you climb upon my knee Sonny boy? Though you're only three Sonny boy there's no way of knowing there's no way of showing what you mean to me and so on. And then at the end, he says, this is where he cries. And when the angels grew lonely they took you because they were lonely well, I'm lonely too Sonny Boy and then the tears.
So how could he be lonely? Because the angels took this guy. And then what? Who is he talking to when he says, climb upon my knee?
[00:19:00] Speaker D: That's a great thought. I never gave that a thought. And I'd like to answer that and go right into the Kaufman thing. Because I met Irving Kaufman just, you know, before he died, back in 1968. May rest in peace at 80 years old. But first, in answer to your question, hang on, Christmas.
I want to say that it seems to me what Mister Jolson sang. And nobody said this. They say what a great stage performer he was. But I've heard cassettes later on of a lot of songs that people don't know from Mister Jolson. And he was a great seller of songs on records. But he was such a great stage performer that nobody paid as much attention on records as they did, you know, when he performed on stage in the Sonny Boy thing. I believe, this is why I believe in your answer there, that he was having memories of the kid when he was alive. Okay.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: That obviously that would be fantasizing, you.
[00:20:02] Speaker D: Know, even though the sun was not there in body no more, he was just there in spirit.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:20:09] Speaker D: But the Kauffman was. Irving Kaufman told me that his record of Sonny Boy was a bigger hit in England than Al Jolson's.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
And the other, the other song that I remember from Al Jolson, I don't know whether we're boring people who are not interested in music of that era, but I think this stuff is. Is fun. One was, you know, boring Mister Jolson.
[00:20:31] Speaker D: Because he's listening.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: That's right. Okay, you believe, you believe that?
[00:20:35] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I believe definitely in that. You know, I was out the other day working Freiburg, you know, Massachusetts, with Robin Lynn, who also plays here, you know, Mike leary orchestra. And I was out there waiting to go on. And it was a, you know, Tuesday night. It was very nice. The moon was in the air, and I was, you know, feeling in the mood of Rudy Valley. And, you know, he was such. He was New England in 19, the late twenties, early thirties. Everything was Rudy Valley in this country from 28 to 31. And I was singing a song that valley sang, old New England moon, you know, I'm pining. And there was the moon in the sky. And I said, gee, visa Valley's got to be here. And so I really believe, you know, know, Mister dolphins hearing this now, you know, and we're keeping his name alive. Same with Mister Kaufman and Ernest Arbaugh. J. Ken Brennan. There's a reason for everything. But, you know, Dolphin was a great, great seller of songs.
And, you know, when it's unfortunate, there are rumors that he had his name put on songs at the time, which he didn't write. But he was so popular, if the guy wanted a break, that's what he'd have to do. Well, that wasn't, of course, the right attitude when you hear that. But in this world, you only hunt for so long. And he wanted to get the most of what his name meant to people, because once he started slipping in 1932, when he was married to Ruby Keillor, he felt the pains until the Jolson story came out. Larry Parks at 47.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I remember his radio show. And there's a rainbow around my shoulder and a sky of blue above and all the sun. Tiny Tim, you're, you're a pleasure to talk with. I wish you much more than a, another year with Miss Sue. I hope, I hope you have many lovely, lovely years together. And you're always, always fun to talk with. I really appreciate you coming on and reminiscing with us and, and giving your comments on.
[00:22:40] Speaker D: Well, Mister Mason, thanks for having me on. Thanks for being, being such a good listener.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: And, you know, and you'll be at Spooky World another week after this coming.
[00:22:48] Speaker D: Weekend, all week till October 14.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Okay. And spooky world itself will remain open beyond that. And you'll be out in the new spooky world out in Minnesota and the America's horror theme park in Berlin, Massachusetts. Very best of luck to you, Tiny Tim. I hope we'll talk again soon.
[00:23:09] Speaker D: Anytime. Maybe we'll get together, do it in person.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Okay. That would be, hey, I co star with Tiny Tim. What a break. Take care of you.
[00:23:18] Speaker D: I'll just, just so I could sell the song.
Thanks, mister Nathan.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Thank you, Tiny Tim.
And just, I don't know, we didn't seem to have enough money to buy any new records, so I'd listen to all these things that came out during the twenties and maybe earlier than that, and it was, I don't know, there was something kind of fun about all that. Yes.
[00:23:39] Speaker D: Yeah. I just want to say one thing that I think your listeners and everyone should know.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:23:45] Speaker D: What Elvis Presley had in common with Al Jolson.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Oh my God, I can't think of both of them. That's like when Elvis Presley visited Richard Nixon. I mean, those are such highly unlikely duos.
[00:23:57] Speaker D: Well, but what they have in common is that never in the history of this century have there been more imitators of these two great personalities.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I remember, I remember one named. Was it Norman Brooks? Do you remember him? Who sounded 1950?
[00:24:15] Speaker D: Hello, sunshine.
[00:24:16] Speaker B: Yeah, he did. He sounded just like Al Jolson.
[00:24:18] Speaker D: Well, there were many imitators, but I mean, as far as paraphernalia, you know, costumes, you know, the black mammy face, the Elvis Presley imitators, both of them in the century had so many imitators, costumes, makeups, imitators, look alikes. It's unbelievable.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: I think people today, and it's hard for anybody who was not living during that Al Jolson period to realize the tremendous, overwhelming popularity that he had when he was at his peak. You were saying the peak was what, up to about 33 or something like that. Yeah.
[00:24:54] Speaker D: His greatest great years, really.
From 1916, he was already making noise at the winter garden, Mammy really put him on the map. From 1916 to the peak of the jazz singer, when sound came in, I'd say from 16 to 29. Or Jolson's ten, more than 1026. About 13 great years. And then when the stock market crashed and the talkies got in, and when the thirties came, it was a new generation, like it always is.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Lifting the horse's leg up and you expect them to be big, burly girls. Yeah, but no, she's. She's a delicate lady and she's very good at it. And there are more and more. I think there are more women who are vets now with big animals and small animals than there are males. I think that's a very much of a woman's occupation now. Well, it's a good job, I guess, if you like. Yep.
[00:25:53] Speaker D: If you like it.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Well, if you don't. If you don't like it, then whatever it is you don't like is not a good job, no matter what it is.
[00:26:00] Speaker C: Right?
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Hey, Peggy. I'm glad to talk with you sometimes. I've called you in the past.
Do you look anything like Hal Bruno, who was one of the newscasters on tv?
See, I can't remember what he looks like exactly. I think I know, but I'm not sure. Yeah. No, no. I don't know whether I do or not. I just can't picture him. Can I get on your picture list? Well, you could, except I don't have any pictures now. I really don't. The last batch I took were taken during the 1919 Boston police strike. I know. I mean, they're so out of. They're so out of date that, you know, I just don't send them out anymore. But I will take some pictures probably in the next. Within the next few weeks, and so ask me again. All right, I'll do that. Okay, don, I gotta go. Bird area by Walden Pond between Route 126 and Sudbury Road. Earlier fires still have the westbound side shut down. Traffic is getting by on the eastbound side, but do continue to drive with extreme care. Traveling downtown. Traffic is starting to build in the expressway. Northbound getting up towards the south station tunnel. Lower deck of Route 93. Tobin Bridge heading into the city. Also showing an increase in the early Saturday morning commute. Drive with a little bit of extra caution. We're seeing just a little bit of moisture on airy roadways. Drive with some caution on the expressway northbound and southbound, not to mention the secondary and tertiary roads. I'm Jack Hart, WBZ 24 hours traffic network now at Silver Lake, Dodge. Our 95 year end clearance sale includes new neons, intrepid stratus and caravans as low as $99 a month on a 24 month lease.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: Remember was roll the ball to bap.
[00:27:41] Speaker E: Check that.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Say that again. Roll the ball.
[00:27:44] Speaker C: Roll the ball to bapsy. It's just a kind of a twang kind of a word, I guess.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know that song at all. How does that go? Do you know how it goes?
[00:27:53] Speaker C: I do know how it goes, and that's why I'm calling. And I'm hoping that the caller is still listening.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Boy, I don't know whether she would be listening right now or nothing.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: That you take a ball and you're playing with another person and you bounce it once and you say plain sies. And then you bounce it while you clap your hands and you say clapsies. You go plainzies. Clapsies. Roll the ball to bapsies. Hikesy, locusty. And each time you're doing something different with your hands.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Oh, gee, I sort of vaguely remember that. Playing that game as a kid myself.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I did, too. I'm 40, and I used to play it when I was about ten.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: Boy, that's just the day before yesterday by my clock. Anyway, that's interesting that you remember that. It's funny how there's some of these things from when you were a kid.
His wife cut it off and made it into jelly. Isn't that ugly?
[00:28:48] Speaker C: Oh, that's. That's a new one on me.
[00:28:50] Speaker B: Well, that's a very old one on me. Anyway, you're nice to call, Nancy. I hope those.
[00:28:57] Speaker C: Thanks very much, noam.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: You're adorable.
I'm rattling papers again because I'm not organized at all. I never can find anything I'm looking for. But there's a jazz concert that's coming up.
I have the pleasure of emceeing. It's. Why don't we see. Here it is. Yeah, it's October 11. It's this coming Wednesday night. It's just up in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Oh, it's at the Portsmouth musical, though. The thing is, not only is Joe Williams a great singer there, and some great entertainers, great, great musicians, but the Portsmouth Music hall is an old, old historic hall. One of the old, old style theaters in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The fifth annual jazz concert. The benefit, the Harry W. Jones Junior Memorial Scholarship Fund. Great number of performers, including the Dave Seiler and the Seacoast Big Band, which I heard for the first time a couple of years ago. Great, great band. Up there and Joe Williams, one of my favorites for many years, will be up there. But it's 08:00 they're pretty well nearly sold out up there for the concert. So that's exciting. Anybody is interested, they'll come on up or call.
Call the music hall there. Now tell me about your event. Well, my event is going to be.
[00:30:13] Speaker E: At St. Adelaide's church.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Too bad I can't get there because.
[00:30:17] Speaker E: I do have something going on for next Wednesday night.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: If it had been local, I would.
[00:30:21] Speaker E: Have broken whatever I had going and come because I'm still waiting to get up to the village green.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: You know, the night that I know.
[00:30:27] Speaker E: You'Re going to be there, a group of us are going to come up.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Okay, well, no, I just go there.
I'm just part of the audience. I'm not MC or anything like that.
[00:30:37] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I know. It's the, it's a yearly event at.
[00:30:41] Speaker E: St. Admay's and we have a lot of fun. There's going to be a lot of different grandma's attic as I'll be there with bells on as usual. And then of course, we have different items that are coming in and they have a lot of food and baked, fresh baked goods and things for the kiddos and raffle tickets.
[00:30:59] Speaker C: It's a lot of fun.
[00:31:00] Speaker E: Knit goods, the usual thing. Country store. So I hope that if you're in the area because you're not too far from us, that you come down and say hello and I hope see a lot of other people there. So this is my chance to tout it.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Okay. I'm glad you did. Okay. No, I'm.
[00:31:18] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: Thank you, generosa. Take care now. Yep.
[00:31:21] Speaker E: Bye bye.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Bye bye. On behalf of Eddie Leclair, the lovely Marilyn Coralik. Myself again, almost good looking and I missed again today. Maybe I'll be good looking by the time I get home. I'm better looking. I told you, I'm better looking my own mirror in the bathroom than I am in like the mirror here. Bzinousen. I think they put a mirror in to make you look ugly at BZ so that we won't go in asking for raises. I think there's some kind of a plot anyway. Hey, hey, people.
[00:31:50] Speaker C: Pleasure. For waves, you tune to normal right.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: Here on DZ Region 38.
[00:32:00] Speaker C: I'm singing the song so you'll know time for your meetin show when the day to day world starts to drive you insane and you feel like you're riding on a runaway train worm makes you laugh and keep spirits bright, tune in 1030 and call Norm tonight.
It's head out there in radio land.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: You tuned in on Nathan, that he's.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: At your command, so pair and listen, then you'll understand.
Either have it, you'll never grow.
[00:32:44] Speaker D: But right now, Norm Nathan Show.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: I said right now.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Here's Norm. Well, thank you very much, Linda Chase. Thank you. Suggested that much interesting guest will be with us in a moment. And I want you to know, of course, that we. Do you understand that we practice safe radio here at WBZ. I'm suggesting when you listen to the Norm Nathan show, you put a condom on each ear.
You know, I mean, you can't be too careful these days. Anyway, eight minutes after 11:00 our guest will be Sandra Beckwith, who has written a book called why can't a man be more like a woman? It'd be interesting talking with her. Obviously, I've read the book and it points out the differences between men and women, and she's got more differences than I thought. I thought I was a sensitive, caring kind of male, but I think when I more I look at the book, I realize I'm just a bore and I just don't deserve your love.
I'll talk with Sandy in just a minute. Stop and ask people for directions.
I think. I think that's probably quite true. Sandy, I was mentioning earlier that I thought I was a very sensitive, caring kind of male and didn't fit the kind of people you're talking about.
But on that one, I find it very hard. I agree with that. I think.
I don't know. Do women, are they more apt to ask for directions?
[00:34:13] Speaker C: Yes, they are. But, Norm, I think you just need to face it. You're a guy.
You're just a guy, Norm.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: You mean I'm guilty? Guilty without even a trial for God.
[00:34:22] Speaker C: No way around it. But that's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Well, if, you know, if men and women were exactly alike, what would the fun be? Where would the challenge be?
[00:34:32] Speaker C: You're exactly right. And that's the point of the book, is that they're not exactly right, that there are good reasons for the differences and we should sit back and enjoy it, or at least find the humor in the differences and worry less about changing them. That's, you know, that's something women try to do. They try to change men, and it's not fair to you poor guys.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: I don't like that.
[00:34:54] Speaker C: You're hopeless.
[00:34:56] Speaker B: I was going to say condescending to you. You're condescending until you said hopeless, and then you're just downright insulting.
[00:35:02] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: And the fact is, I'm looking at your picture in the back of your book.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: Oh, my Donna Reed photo.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: Yeah. You got, you got the both hands under your chin like a Donna Reed picture. You were, you were an adorable. Adorable was probably not the way you probably would like me to describe you more as kind of a lustful nymph. Probably more than just plain adorable, I would think.
[00:35:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I think my husband would probably rather have me described that way. Yeah, that's my Donna Reed photo. I have since been told now that my hair is shorter, that I look much younger than I do in that photo. So picture me a little bit younger, Norm, and I'm still as nice as.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: I look in the picture because actually, you look quite young in the picture, because as I looked at the picture, I kept thinking, this punk kid, what would she know about all this? She hasn't lived long enough to know.
[00:35:55] Speaker C: It's funny you say that. I spoke to a group of about 100 older women last week, and by older, I think the average age in the group is probably about six. And that was, they kept coming up to me at the head table and saying, well, honey, you know, you look younger than your picture in your book. And I'm just wondering, how can you know so much?
And, you know, I said, frankly, I don't. But I, you know, I spent last summer calling men, I don't know, all over the country to interview them for this book, because the information in the book comes straight from the guys themselves. So. So you guys across in helped me out tremendously.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: Well, that's because you're, that's because you, you're a lustful looking nymph.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: If you were just an ugly looking old guy, we wouldn't have even responded.
[00:36:42] Speaker C: That's right. I had to fax each of them a photo before they talked to me, but it worked.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: Norm, you have, you have some really funny observations. By funny, I mean, they're, they're amusing and they're fun to look at. And one, for example, is, men don't like to cook indoors. You know, like you expect. Women probably do. Or maybe not in all cases, but any case. But men like to barbecue outside. Like, there's a difference between you much more. You're macho if you barbecue, but if you cook over a stove, that's not macho.
[00:37:16] Speaker C: You're absolutely right. You know, men make fire. Men can't make fire in kitchen and outside to make fire. Yes. Some men, unfortunately, see the kitchen as the female domain. And heaven forbid they should be mistaken for a woman at the stove. You know, they just. These are, of course, the same guys who won't wear pink shirts. They're paranoid about that, but yet they are the first ones to cook outside, because that's outside. It's outdoors. It's God's country. It's man's country. And, of course, there is that early man's fascination with fire.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: You know, the stuff they did outside of caves and drag you women in, lustful nymphs that you might be dragged in by your hair into the cave.
[00:37:59] Speaker C: Yeah, but they normally drag us into the cave to fix the greens for the meat. They were barbecuing outside on the fire because, you know, that's the woman's job, gathering the greens. So while we women are inside in the kitchen, you know, fixing the salads and the side dishes, you guys are all gathered around the grill outside, talking about really important things. You know, I know the barbecuing season is passing us here, but, you know, you guys get around that grill and you, you know, you talk about important things like whether you should heap the cold into a pyramid or not.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Oh, rock about sports. Did you mention the fact that you figure women can't understand man's preoccupation with sports?
[00:38:39] Speaker C: Yes, because, you know, and if. Are you a sports fan, Norm?
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Yes, I am. To a certain point.
[00:38:45] Speaker C: If you're introspective about it, you know that it's more than just a preoccupation with a game, that it's part of your maleness, it's part of your upbringing, it's part of your patterns from when you were a young boy. For many men, it has a lot to do with bonding with their fathers, that this is what they did with their fathers when they were kids. They went to sporting events. Events. And, you know, so they have all those good memories from the past, and then you add that to the good memories of the present, all that male bonding and camaraderie that you get when you're at a game, live and in person. And then, of course, you know that, Norm, there's always the fun of taping the game while you're attending it. I know you mentioned male sort of behavior.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: Yeah. You watch the game. You're talking about guys going to the game. Then they come home and. And they watch the tape that they. That's been taping while they've been gone so they can see the game over.
[00:39:40] Speaker C: Again and watch for themselves on camera.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: Yeah. You suggested guys do that because this way, they can get. Oh, that's right. They can look for themselves on camera. I forgot about that. But also, they can hear what the, what the broadcasters say about plays. So when you're at a game, you don't get a running commentary. And some. I think, I think there's a weakness there. I think guys don't trust their own ability to analyze a game.
[00:40:04] Speaker C: Good point.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: So when they come home, they want to know what did the commentator say? And then they'll say to their. See, see what he said? I said the same thing. It's kind of like, kind of like they're backing him up in his little silly opinion.
[00:40:17] Speaker C: Now, the man who is obsessed with being a man will be at the game. He'll be videotaping it at home, but he'll also have either a radio with him or a little watchman with him, and he will have earphones in. So he's hearing what the commentary is coming across the radio.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: Oh, I guess that's true. Yes.
[00:40:36] Speaker C: So, guys, he gets his very, very bright opinions about each play out of his earplugs and can share them with a guy next to him who is not plugged in and perhaps is too, you know, focused on the game to notice that the expert next to him has earplugs in earphones, and he thinks, this guy with the earphones is absolutely brilliant, when, in fact, the commentary that the man is spitting out, as if these were his original thoughts, that's classically male. But, Norm, I'm glad to see you've read the book.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: You actually have actually read it. And I have to give a, I have to give a sports note just very quickly, because our New England Patriots played the Denver Broncos this very evening. The game has just ended, and the New England Patriots got clobbered 37 to three by the Denver Broncos. This was supposed to be a big year for Sinan. I'm talking just like these guys in your book.
[00:41:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: I'm sorry. Would you.
[00:41:32] Speaker C: I'm about to slit my wrist.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: Don't do that. Well, now, how does your husband take a. Now, is your husband fairly typical of these guys you're writing about?
[00:41:43] Speaker C: No, only in the sports department. He is totally obsessed with college basketball, and we're coming up on that season. So I truly am about to slit my wrist because the girls and I pretty much lose him during this time of the year to Syracuse university games. It's 2 hours door to door from Rochester to the dome in Syracuse, and he does it for absolutely every home game. So he's typical in that respect.
But thank God for the rest of the book. Boy, he's not in there. You know, that. Shoot me before. That's my life, you know.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: See, now that's the thing that makes the book a little not strange for me. But some things, I mean, I can identify with them to a certain point, but I grew up with a mother who was very strong and a wife who was very much so, you know, so if there was any weakness thing, I think my wife would have barbecued outside and I would have cooked. Well, no, I don't. I'm overdoing that.
[00:42:43] Speaker C: Well, but, you know, you say weakness, but I think maybe what you're talking about is, is playing to each other's strengths, which might be a role reversal for some households, but in fact, what you're just doing is if she, you know, she prefers to barbecue letter if you don't want to do it. You know, that's one problem I have. And one thing I hope that at some level the book does is encourages people to blur the gender roles a little bit. You know, I say, in my house, we try not to look at things as classically men's work or woman's work. It's just, you know, which job do you like to do and which job do you hate to do? And let's look at what I'm good at and divide things up accordingly, you know, as opposed to what our parents did.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: And of course, things have changed quite a little bit since women are in the market place now and many, many more women are working all the time. So it isn't just a question of the men bringing in the income, but the women also do. But I would imagine despite that, there are some men, and you certainly describe them in the book, why can't a man be more like a woman? You describe them as, despite the fact that both husband and wife work, the husband still expects the wife to do the wifely things and the husband do the husbandly thing, which is probably nothing around the house. Not very, very much.
[00:44:04] Speaker C: Yes, sort of. Men get to, in most households still, even in homes where there are two incomes, men still get to pick those jobs that they like, and they tend to pick the jobs that get done, say, on a weekly, monthly, or biannual basis, as opposed to the drudgery of the day in and day out kind of chores. And those can be things like dishes, giving children their baths, or putting children to bed or helping with the homework or laundry in most cases. And of course, this is changing, thank heavens. But in most cases, in the majority, men still are not doing 50% of the housework, particularly, especially still in homes where there are two incomes. You know, the man and the woman might both work a full 40 hours week, but when it comes to coming home, she's still putting in another 40 hours week. And his is more like 15 or 20 hours week at home. F that.
[00:45:08] Speaker B: I feel wretched when you put it that way.
[00:45:10] Speaker C: Well, but, you know, them's the facts, Norm. That's, that's just how it is. And it would be nice if changed a little, don't you think? A little more fair?
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Well, no, I think it should be a 50 50 thing, certainly. And let's see, one other point that you had touched. Not just one other point, because you touched on a whole lot of things.
[00:45:30] Speaker C: Oh, I let it rip.
[00:45:31] Speaker B: No, you didn't hold back anything.
[00:45:33] Speaker C: But with a sense of humor, you know, because you gotta find the humor and all this, and you can go nuts.
[00:45:38] Speaker B: You can. I think I crocheted that into my doily. It said, without a sense of humor, you can go nuts. I got that hanging on my wall. Yeah.
[00:45:45] Speaker C: You crocheted that in yourself, right?
[00:45:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I crochet into my darling sayings that people come across with that I think are terribly important and I ought to remember. And that is one of them saying, I have a feeling before we're through talking, I not only will crochet a lot of your sayings into my daily, but I'll probably fall desperately in love with you and probably send you obscene notes.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: That sounds delightful. I'll give you my email address.
I'll get them really quickly.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Okay. How old are you? You have two daughters, you said?
[00:46:16] Speaker C: My daughters are eight and five.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Oh, they're just little. Little guys.
[00:46:20] Speaker C: Little ones, yeah.
[00:46:21] Speaker B: Now, did your husband change diapers and stuff when they were babies?
[00:46:24] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: So he's. He's a perfect kind of good guy.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: Yes, he is. You know, from the beginning, we, we both knew that we were going into this parenting business without knowing anything. We were both equally ignorant, and that helped. Neither one of us had the upper hand in terms of knowledge or experience. So we started off together, sharing all of the work, and it's still great. Every night he gives them their bath and puts them to bed while I go out and walk so that I can, you know, continue to be that lustful woman on the back of the book.
Keep that girlish figure, you know, Norm.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: Well, you're a wonderfully wonderful person. You mentioned another area, too, that I thought was kind of interesting. Another one I hadn't really thought of, which is kind of interesting, because I think of a lot of things. I happen to be a big brain.
[00:47:11] Speaker C: Well, good.
[00:47:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I usually think of most everything you could possibly think of, and yet you came up with stuff I hadn't.
What was the nickname thing? Guys give each other nicknames.
Women don't give each other nicknames so much.
[00:47:26] Speaker C: Not nearly as much as Menta.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: I've never known a woman who was called by another woman. Like stinky.
[00:47:32] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: Short pants or anything like that. Why? Why is that?
[00:47:37] Speaker C: Well, you know, for men, it's very interesting. It all relates to the. How men communicate differently from how women communicate. You know, when you. When you've got two women who are best friends, one will say to the other, well, you know, you're my best friend because I've got you on speed dial. Because we. And women talk a lot. An awful lot. With men, however, it's. You know, you're my best friend because I've given you a nickname. So it's a way of establishing intimacy among male friendships. But in addition, it's also a way for men in a social group to identify boundaries and identify who is in the group and who is not in the group. If you're in the group, you know, and use the nicknames, especially when you greet the guy on the street or somewhere. If you're not in the group, you don't know the nicknames, and you're labeled as an outsider, you know, indirectly.
[00:48:32] Speaker B: No, I guess. I guess that's interesting enough. Do you live in the Rochester area?
[00:48:36] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: Okay. Your husband can hear you. If you can tune us in, we do get out to Rochester. Did you know that?
[00:48:42] Speaker C: I do. No, I didn't know that.
[00:48:44] Speaker B: If you want to yell to your husband, tell him to tune in to 1030 on the Am dial. Fine. Tune it. And he probably will pick up WBZ out there. Will you get calls from Rochester?
[00:48:53] Speaker C: I will. Good. I will slip a note out to him and tell him that.
[00:48:57] Speaker B: You will slip a note out to him.
[00:48:59] Speaker C: I'll use sign language. He's very gifted.
[00:49:02] Speaker B: I think that's wonderful. Okay, let's just take a little break for some. We call them commercials. I don't know what you book called. Why can't a man be more like a woman? And also, the creator says here of the award winning newsletter, the do little report. And that that is spelt the way it sounds for people who don't do a whole lot. Doolittle report. What is now? What is that about sandy?
[00:49:28] Speaker C: It's very similar to the book. In fact, the book is an offshoot of the newsletter. And the Doolittle report is named after Eliza Doolittle from my fair lady. Because you may recall in the movie, Henry Higgins sang this, oh, delightful song. Why can't a woman be more like a wish that you are a sensitive new age guy?
[00:49:49] Speaker B: Yes, I am. I want to be a mister nineties. I want to be a guy of the nineties. I don't quite know how to do that since I'm about 150 years old.
[00:49:57] Speaker C: Well, but how about. You can start with cappuccino. Do you enjoy cappuccino?
[00:50:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm, you know, it isn't a, the kind of thing I think of first thing when I get up during the day.
[00:50:06] Speaker C: Well, you don't really have to enjoy it. You just have to tell people you do.
[00:50:10] Speaker B: Okay. What other things should. Should I enjoy and you should. How should I talk and all that? If I want to be a nineties.
[00:50:16] Speaker C: Guy, you should wear dockers.
[00:50:18] Speaker B: Dockers? No. Oh, those are the Levi.
[00:50:21] Speaker C: Levi casual clothes that are, that are made for the older man's figure.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: Okay. Because we used to call them dungarees. But dungarees is not a figure phrase of the nineties.
[00:50:30] Speaker C: Yeah, dockers is a brand name.
[00:50:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:50:32] Speaker C: It's a whole line of clothing, but it's made to fit the mature man's body.
[00:50:38] Speaker B: You mean the guy with the big tush?
[00:50:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:41] Speaker B: Why don't you just come right out and say it, Sandy?
[00:50:43] Speaker C: Because I'm trying to be politically correct for your listeners.
[00:50:47] Speaker B: You don't have to.
[00:50:47] Speaker C: We don't want any angry callers.
Like, like this is going to change anything now.
[00:50:53] Speaker B: Well, it may. I think we both are having a profound influence on. Anyway, what else are there other tips you can give me to become a man of the nineties?
[00:51:02] Speaker C: Yes. It's a wise thing to be a man of the nineties. You might want to drive a four wheel drive vehicle.
[00:51:07] Speaker B: I do that already.
[00:51:08] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:51:09] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Now I want to get rid of it.
[00:51:12] Speaker C: You say you watch Baywatch for the storyline, and sometimes you get a little concerned because they're using, they're doing CPR inclined correctly.
[00:51:23] Speaker B: No, I've never actually never seen Baywatch. But that's important that I do that.
[00:51:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:51:28] Speaker B: And I. For the storyline. It was like those of us when we, when we were younger.
[00:51:32] Speaker C: Yeah. You say you read Playboy for the stories, not the pictures.
[00:51:35] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's right. For the stories plus. But even going back before that, we would go to burlesque shows to see the comedians.
[00:51:42] Speaker C: Oh, right.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: Yeah, not. Not the strippers, man. Those comedians. That's what I. We care about naked ladies. We care about these baggy pants kind of old, ugly looking guys telling bad jokes. That's why we call.
[00:51:55] Speaker C: That's why you went. And actually, you probably went there to protect the strippers from men who had other thoughts on their mind. Thoughts beyond the wonderful comedians.
[00:52:04] Speaker B: I'm sure that's right. Guys who did not have pure, lovely, protective thoughts and were not. Oh, my God, I kidding with all of this.
[00:52:14] Speaker C: Not me. Norm, let me give you a few more tips because I think you need this help.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: I need the tips, and I wish you would.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: You need to say things like, boy, I could really use a hug today.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Oh, hugs are in, aren't they?
[00:52:26] Speaker C: Yeah, hugs are in. Yes. You need to use the word fun as you're describing your clothing. Like, don't you think this is a fun tie?
[00:52:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:40] Speaker C: This will help you become a sensitive new age guy.
[00:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah, fun time. So it doesn't have to be attractive or fit in with whatever else I'm wearing, as long as it's kind of a fun time.
[00:52:49] Speaker C: A fun time?
[00:52:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I love this. With a picture of Santa Claus, bray rabbit, and somebody who looks like my former father in law after a hangover.
I don't even know what I'm talking about. Is that being a nineties guy, not knowing what you're talking about? Is that part of it?
[00:53:06] Speaker C: That's just part of being a guy.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: Oh, I see.
[00:53:09] Speaker C: Regardless of the decade.
[00:53:10] Speaker B: Oh, we're back to that again. Oh, shoot. Well, you were a bitter person for somebody who sounds like a little girl with a sweet temper and a lovely voice.
[00:53:19] Speaker C: I'm a realist, Norm.
I've lived, and, boy, have I talked to other women. Oh, my gosh.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: Hey, what about what? You've talked to other women? Is that what you said?
[00:53:29] Speaker C: Oh, yes. That's where all of this came from. The idea for the book was hearing women. You know, they would see my newsletter and they'd call and say, okay, tell me why they do this. Tell me why they do that. Tell me why they do the other thing. I thought, well, I got to answer these questions, but I sure can't do it myself. I'm going to have to call a bunch of guys to do this.
[00:53:48] Speaker B: Okay, okay. One section you have, too. The fact is that you seem to suggest, and I'm not certainly endorsing this or suggesting that you're correct in saying this, but you're suggesting that men lose things, misplace them, and then expect their wives or their fiance. So whatever kind of arrangement they have at home to find them, you kind of like. Like their mates?
[00:54:13] Speaker C: No. Do you think this has ever happened, Norm?
[00:54:17] Speaker B: See, you're shocked by this, too. The same as I was when I read it.
[00:54:20] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: Do you finally come to your.
[00:54:23] Speaker C: You think there is a man on this planet who has ever walked around the house and said, honey, do you know where my brown belt is? Or, dear, do you know where I put my car keys? Or. Probably no man on this earth has ever opened the refrigerator door and said, honey, where's the butter?
Probably never happened. I don't even know why I wrote about that.
[00:54:46] Speaker B: Did you have to do it with a voice that's so full of hatred, mockery? You have to do it there. Can't you just say it straight out?
[00:54:55] Speaker C: No, like.
[00:54:56] Speaker B: Like, honey, where's the butter? That's the way we talk. We don't talk.
[00:55:01] Speaker D: Honey, where's the butter?
[00:55:02] Speaker B: We don't talk that way.
[00:55:04] Speaker C: Some of your friends do, Norm.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: Oh, not. They're not my friends. If they talk that way, they're just off the list immediately.
[00:55:11] Speaker C: That's good.
[00:55:12] Speaker B: I'm glad to hear that. And of course, none of these things apply to your own husband. This is what's scalding to me. You happen to marry the only perfect guy who ever came to upstate New York.
[00:55:22] Speaker C: Well, you know, he's pretty close to us, pretty close to it, but he knows better. He knows better than to say, honey, where are my car keys? Because he knows what I'm going to say. And that's. I don't know. I don't use them. I mean, I'm not going to drop everything and go run and look for something that he can find without me. He's an adult. He's an intelligent human being.
But, you know, some guys, Norm, unlike my husband, some guys think that women are built with homing devices factored right into their uteruses.
Because what else would explain why women can find things that men can't find? Many times, things that are right under the male nose.
[00:56:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And of course, there are other things men cannot see. You suggest, for example, if there's a little plant, a little puddle, water puddle in the kitchen, for example, a man will act like he doesn't know it's there and walk around it. Obviously, he knows it's there, otherwise he wouldn't be walked through it.
[00:56:20] Speaker C: Right.
[00:56:20] Speaker B: Okay, so you mentioned that. You mentioned also the time it takes for men to do simple things around the house, like change a light bulb.
[00:56:30] Speaker C: Approximately two weeks, typically.
[00:56:32] Speaker B: Okay.
You mentioned I, and you mention a whole lot of other things that put us guys in a, you know, just a terrible light.
[00:56:42] Speaker C: Got a tip here, though, for the guy who is forced to clean up that little puddle of juice or water, whatever it is, on the floor. You know, typically, he'll walk around it and then his wife will say, why didn't you wipe up that juice that you just walked around? And he'll go, well, I didn't see it. She goes, well, if you, you walked around it, you, you must have seen it. Well, I didn't see it. And chances are it did not register in his conscience. But she'll then say, okay, well, I'm telling you now, it's there. Would you do me a favor and wipe it up? What a lot of guys tell me they like to do is rather than go get a paper towel or a cloth or something, what they like to do is just take off their shoe and wipe it up with their sock while they're wearing it.
[00:57:24] Speaker B: I mean, just walk across it and kind of absorb it into the.
[00:57:27] Speaker C: Yep. Yep.
[00:57:28] Speaker B: Boy, I have never, I don't mind telling you, Santi, I have never in my entire life met a man as callous and as that.
I don't know. I don't know who you hang, who you've been hanging out with.
[00:57:41] Speaker C: Well, see, but that's the point, Norm. This is not my life, thank heavens. But I have heard from women all over the US and Canada and often Australia on all of these subjects. And it's not just the women who are telling me this stuff. It's the men, too. I hear from men who tell me things. Like, for example, if they're wearing dark socks and they've got a hole in the sock that shows above the top of their shoes, so say it's on their ankle rather than change their sock, which would be the classically female reaction, the guy will go and get a black magic marker and color the skirt that shows through the fat.
[00:58:20] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:58:20] Speaker C: So you don't notice the hole.
[00:58:22] Speaker B: Well, what's wrong with that?
[00:58:24] Speaker C: Well, nothing. But I'm just telling you that this is stuff that I hear about from men and women. It's not my crowd.
It is the world's crowd.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: Can you talk about the fact that one of the things that's quite true, that I find myself feeling that way, like shopping, shopping for groceries, that kind of thing, or shopping for clothes is even worse? I mean, I think most men, well, see, I'm in the high fashion industry of broadcasting.
[00:58:53] Speaker C: Oh. Where guys, the best dressers in the world. You're absolutely. Oh, yeah.
[00:58:56] Speaker B: They go around feeling the material on somebody else's jacket saying, where did you get this? That's the part of the business I really hate.
[00:59:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I always hate, but there's a lot of that.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: But for the most part, including me, most guys don't like to shop for clothes. I find it, you know, if I get, if I get arrested and found guilty of some heinous crime, I think the worst punishment would be you must go shopping for a new jacket. That is your punishment. I would bring that to the supreme court. Would probably find it unduly savage kind of treatment that should be outlawed.
[00:59:32] Speaker C: I'm sorry, norm, but you're typical. I know that's like the worst thing I can say to you, but you're typical. Typical. Most men, and again, we're generalizing, but, you know, stereotypes exist for a reason. Most men are shopping challenged. They do not enjoy it. They're not very good at it, and they treat it like the hunt for the mastodon. They know what they want, they go right for it, and they get out of that store as quickly as they can before anything bad happens to them.
[01:00:01] Speaker B: And, yeah, that's true. Just being there, right. Think is enough evil could happen to just being there is awful.
[01:00:06] Speaker C: But, you know, and that's really for clothing and gifts for women. Now, men do like to shop for big ticket items like automobiles, furniture, and particularly for consumer electronics, like, you know, stereos and that sort of thing. Now, that's the kind of thing you can get a guy out shopping for. But unfortunately, you know, the typical male will spend more time purchasing a new sound system for his apartment than he will purchasing the suit to wear in the job interview for the job that's going to pay for the sound system for the apartment.
[01:00:42] Speaker B: You had one suggestion which I thought was rather nice, that men's clothing ought to have expiration dates on them.
[01:00:50] Speaker C: Absolutely. Don't you think, Norm, that guys have trouble figuring out when a garment is past its prime?
[01:00:55] Speaker B: Oh, no question about that. Yes, I plead guilty.
[01:00:58] Speaker C: If we put expiration labels into the, you know, like the neck labels best, if used by it, will give you a little guidance. And I called the people at Levi's about this and couldn't seem to shake anything loose there. They don't seem to be very interested in adding this to their apparel. So what I figure I'm going to do is go to another company and suggest that they do what? Something similar to what Sears did for children years ago with a line of clothing they had called geranimals. And geranimals had little animals sewed to the apparel. Like, it would be a tiger on the shorts, and then the kid would match the tiger on the shorts with the tiger on the shirt. That's how the little boy knew that the two pieces went together. He matched the animals, and that's how children learn to dress themselves. What I want to do is do that for men with tools, but add another twist to it. Treat the hammer on the pants and the hammer on the shirt with a special dye. So with time, the brown handle turns white. And then the poor guy knows that's when it's time to throw out that sweater.
Don't you think this is ingenious?
[01:02:08] Speaker B: Well, it says right on here. It says, you caught. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, on the COVID of the book, Sandra Beckwith is a genius. There's some dots in between is and a genius.
[01:02:22] Speaker C: It could be not, right?
[01:02:23] Speaker B: It could be. Could be Senator Beckwith is writing a book that is totally ridiculous, even though she calls herself a genius. Maybe that's what replaced them.
[01:02:35] Speaker C: Done. Yeah. Actually, I don't know why the publisher put those dots in there, because that's what the enquirer said. It said, sandra Beckwith, I think it said, is a certifiable genius. I think the dots, in fact, are in the wrong place.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: They probably thought men would read this and would not know what certifiable meant.
[01:02:52] Speaker C: Could be. Sometimes that means you ought to be institutionalized.
So, you know, maybe. But, you know, I think that you guys do have trouble knowing when to throw your clothes. So I talked to this man, Richard Martin, who is the curator at the costume institute at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, and he confirmed it. He says that they are desperate for men's clothing at the costume institute. They have more female clothing than they know what to do with, but they are desperate for classic men's clothing. So if you guys could throw these things out a little bit, maybe this man wouldn't be so hard up there in Manhattan.
[01:03:31] Speaker B: But no, but, no. Sure. See this? The bitterness is coming out again.
[01:03:36] Speaker C: Oh, there it is again.
[01:03:37] Speaker B: Okay, you have, you have also have a section called a stupid. How is it stupid? Men's tricks.
[01:03:43] Speaker C: Stupid men tricks.
Goofy things men do that women would never do.
[01:03:48] Speaker B: Like, for example, what, for heaven's sakes?
[01:03:51] Speaker C: Oh, okay, well, how about this one? Say, norm, that you're the, you're making yourself a salad for dinner tonight. And you really like croutons, but you don't have any of those store bought croutons. Don't worry about it. Dump the crumbs from the bottom of your toaster on your salad.
I thought this one was unbelievable. I was doing a radio interview with somebody in Las Vegas last week, and the woman said to me, she goes, you know, I really like those crumbs. She goes, let me take this one step farther and tell Ydez you what a friend of mine did. He wanted to make a blt, but he didn't have bacon, so he used a jar of bake o's instead. And he said it was really noisy, but it tasted good.
[01:04:36] Speaker B: If you douse it in mayonnaise, maybe it softens it enough so you don't notice that. Yeah. Oh, that sounds so awful. My stomach is turning just at the.
[01:04:44] Speaker C: Thought of just listening to the crunching.
[01:04:47] Speaker B: That's true. Or just a bunch of bake or sort of sandwich doused in mayonnaise.
Anyway, the book is kind of fun. You point out things that men like that women don't, aside from their personal habits. And some of them. You mentioned, of course, sports, that although there are some women who do get very much wrapped up in sports.
[01:05:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I think there are three of them.
[01:05:08] Speaker B: Okay.
But you also mentioned certain performers like, do you think men like different kinds of comics than women? Do you point out the Three Stooges? You can't understand why women, why men would like the three Stooges when you suggest perhaps that women don't at all.
[01:05:28] Speaker C: Well, you know, actually, personally, I do like the Three Stooges. And I have sort of trained my girls on the Three Stooges. And, you know, I've got them so that they'll go, you know, Alex will say to Jessie, hey, Jesse, pick two. And the other will go.
And I have them doing stooge like things because, again, I'm working to blur the gender roles. But usually women think the three Stooges are totally moronic and men think they're hysterical. And this just goes to the fact that we have a different sense of humor. There are different things that strike us funny. First of all, men are more visually stimulated than women are. And you add to that the fact that the stooges are so physical that they make women uncomfortable. The violence makes women uncomfortable.
The physical side of it makes women flinch. And they can't see any humor in that. Smacking.
[01:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of hitting off the head and all that. But it's interesting you say that women, men are more.
And we've always been taught to think that. But switch the subject now. And I hate to say this because you were such a young, adorable person, although a lustful nymph also.
[01:06:41] Speaker C: Yes. Don't forget that.
[01:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're talking, like, in the. In sex women.
I never would have believed a few years ago we would have been told women would not have gone to see male strippers, for example. And I have never seen male strippers with just obviously because they don't allow men in there. Although I've always wanted to go in and see what the reaction was. But you see them on television and the women go crazy.
[01:07:05] Speaker C: They go nuts.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: So you guys are just as visually oriented toward those things as guys are. We never believed that before.
[01:07:13] Speaker C: Well, you know, I think that's just one thing. Let's take that a little bit farther and let's add romance to the picture. Let's talk just beyond this. This carnal business. Have you heard of something called the Sipowicz syndrome?
[01:07:29] Speaker B: I have not.
[01:07:30] Speaker C: Do you ever watch NYPD blue on ABC?
[01:07:33] Speaker B: I've only seen that once, so I don't. I'm not exactly sure. So, what is this?
[01:07:38] Speaker C: It's a cop drama and got a lot of attention when it first came out a year ago.
[01:07:44] Speaker B: Do we lose her, Sandy?
[01:07:50] Speaker C: Oh, some squirrel was probably chewing on the wire somewhere.
[01:07:53] Speaker B: I had a feeling you're gonna blame it on some sex starved male. Something like that. Some guy.
[01:07:58] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. All the guys at Rochester tell have my number. They don't like me.
It's payback time.
[01:08:05] Speaker B: Now, we were talking about. Oh, yeah.
[01:08:07] Speaker C: You were talking about how men syndrome.
[01:08:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:08:10] Speaker C: There's this man on NYPD Blue. His name is. He's a detective, Sipowicz. And he's not nearly as physically attractive as his colleague. He started out with one colleague who then left the show. He was quite nice looking and then left the show. And now he was replaced by Jimmy Smith. Who is this, you know, handsome, dark, hispanic. So Sipowicz has had these studly partners. Yet Sipowicz has consistently brought in more fan mail than the studs on the show.
[01:08:41] Speaker B: You see, the. Is he the bald guy? The.
[01:08:43] Speaker C: Yes. Dennis Franz.
[01:08:44] Speaker B: Oh, Dennis Franz.
Who must come from your area. He's got either Chicago or upstate New York. He's got your accent.
[01:08:52] Speaker C: Oh, does he?
[01:08:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:08:53] Speaker C: You know, I don't know, to tell you the truth, because I know he. You know, he's a. He's a Hollywood guy now, but where he's from originally, I don't know.
[01:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet you midwest or upper New York City.
[01:09:02] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right. We do. When I lived in Chicago and Wisconsin, I talked just like the people there and fit right in. So you're absolutely right.
[01:09:08] Speaker B: Okay. Anyway, tell me about that.
[01:09:09] Speaker C: Anyway, so you know, Dennis Franz is not. He's not anybody they probably hired to pose in the centerfold for play girl. Yet he gets more fan mail. And the men are fascinated by this. Why is it that this guy, who does not have a classically attractive exterior is so appealing to women? And the men tell me they're confused by this because men would not be attracted to the female counterpart of Dennis Franz, who plays Detective Sipowicz. So men are saying, why are you women attracted to this guy? And what they don't realize is that for us, we go beyond the visual stimulation. We're attracted to who this guy is on the show. He's really a sensitive, sweet kind of guy. And we're all smitten with that. The guys, however, can't get past exterior. And that's why they're all, you know, drooling over Donna Abandonza, the blonde bombshell who is the receptionist for the department.
[01:10:08] Speaker B: That means that a lot of us guys, even though we're handsome but not incredibly handsome, that means we have a. We have a fighting chance.
[01:10:18] Speaker C: You sure do.
[01:10:19] Speaker B: With you cute little nymphs.
[01:10:21] Speaker C: Nymphs.
[01:10:23] Speaker B: Okay. Is your husband a good looking guy?
[01:10:25] Speaker C: Yes, he is. He's a. You know, he's greek. And you know what they say about Greeks. They're either greek gods or God. Greeks?
[01:10:32] Speaker B: No, I never heard that.
[01:10:33] Speaker C: He's a greek God.
[01:10:34] Speaker B: I see. Okay. What did you do, audition him before you marry him? Just to make sure he was that and not the other?
[01:10:41] Speaker C: I know. I had to audition him to make sure he was patient enough to live with somebody like me.
[01:10:47] Speaker B: Okay. Now, were you. Were you doing a lot of writing when you met him? You already were a writer at that point?
[01:10:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I've always been a writer. Exactly. Since I was about six years old and used to go around the neighborhood with a pad of paper telling people I was going to put together a neighborhood newspaper.
[01:11:02] Speaker B: Did you ever do that?
[01:11:03] Speaker C: No, but I talked a lot about it because I've spent my life just talking in general. And that's one thing that seems to come easily.
[01:11:11] Speaker B: You've been compared with.
I'm a bombeck, in a way. Although I think your humor is a little bit different. I don't know the comparison, maybe because you're both. It's probably a cliche for you're both women and you both have senses of humor. Yeah, I don't know whether the sense of humor is exactly this. I guess it's similar.
[01:11:33] Speaker C: And I think she writes about broader topics than I do. I pretty much focus in on gender dynamics and what, you know, what makes us different and what makes us tick. And, of course, what's funny about all that, because a lot of it is really funny.
[01:11:48] Speaker B: No, it really is. And despite the fact that you talk about the weaknesses of men as compared to women, I think I would suspect, and I'm not positive of this, that you understand that some women have some weaknesses and men have a fair amount of strong points, too. Would you give me that, for heaven's sakes?
[01:12:09] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I got to tell you, Norm, this sounds like something a racist would say, but, you know, I do like men. Some of my best friends are men. I mean, beyond the fact that I married a man many times, the people I choose to spend my free time with are my guy friends. They bring a different perspective to things, and sometimes it's a fresher perspective than my female friends can. Plus, men tend to have, I think, a great sense of humor, and they're just a lot of fun.
[01:12:38] Speaker B: You know what I found out? I did an all night dj show at one time, and I first found out about it at that point, I found out that men, I think, are in many ways are hipper than women. I don't know whether that's true Today. I'm kind of going back to the fifties, sixties, seventies, that period. The earl. Well, the fifties and sixties primarily. For example, on the jazz show, guys would call and say, yeah, man, I like some count basie. I like Woody Herman, buddy rich, those guys. And women would say, I'd like, I'd like a pretty ballad, a love song, more that than they would, you know, the real downright hard hitting jazz.
[01:13:22] Speaker C: And you know what I have found?
It sounds almost as if you're saying that perhaps women are a little more conservative about these things than men. And I have found with humor on this subject, they are certainly more conservative. Men have read my book and said, gee, it was really funny. It's like you're looking in my windows. But, you know, you didn't come down hard enough on us. You were too nice to us. But then women, I have found, because I've done some research in this area, testing my writing on women with focus groups, and I have found that you can only push them so far in this subject. It reminds me of when you're talking about family. Say you're married. You know, my husband.
I can say things about my family that are not kind, but my husband can't. Do you know what I mean? You've got these sensitivities. It's like women will say, well, I can talk about my husband behind his back, but you can't. So if I do it, I have to make sure that I do it in a very careful way so that it is truly funny and does not have an edge to it. Whereas men like the writing when it has an edge.
But the book really is written to enlighten women. So I walk that fine line there. But I do notice that women are more conservative, that sort of thing, than men are.
[01:14:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyway, the book, I would tend to agree with you, but then again, you've done more research on it, so I'll take your word for it, which sounds accurate to me. It's good. The book is called why can't a man be more like a woman? Sandra L. Beckwith. And it's published by Kensington. Is it Kensington books in New York? And it looks like the kind of thing that would be in the humor section almost any bookstore, almost anywhere. Is that so?
[01:15:12] Speaker C: That's exactly right. That's just where you find it, in the humor section. Always filed alphabetically by author. And I'm a b. Near Dave Barry.
[01:15:22] Speaker B: That's right. Near Dave Barry, who's a very, very funny, funny writer. Sandra L. Beckwith. Okay. You're fun to talk with, Sandra.
[01:15:31] Speaker C: Oh, thank you. So are you. I enjoy this.
[01:15:33] Speaker B: I appreciate that very, very much. My best. Now, what is your husband's name?
[01:15:37] Speaker C: My husband's name is Bill. His last name is different from mine. He didn't take my name when we got married. Isn't that odd?
[01:15:44] Speaker B: That's the way guys are.
[01:15:45] Speaker C: Yeah, you gotta live.
[01:15:47] Speaker B: Gotta live with that. Anyway, I was thinking more of his first name. Anyway, Bill and Sandy, we'll invite you to our next party.
[01:15:54] Speaker C: Oh, that sounds great.
[01:15:55] Speaker B: Invite Bill and Sandy. They're a swell couple.
Anyway, thanks a lot for coming on. Best of luck to you, Bill and your two daughters. And I appreciate very much you talking with us. And it's. It's been a fun hour for me.
[01:16:07] Speaker C: My pleasure, Norm. Thank you for calling.
[01:16:09] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:16:09] Speaker C: All right. Bye bye.
[01:16:11] Speaker B: That's Sandy Beckwood. She has adorable. She's a pretty lady, according to her picture here.
Anyway, the book is called why can't a man be more like a woman. And going to pick it up is Henry Morgan. Used to, when he did commercials. If you want to pick the book up. Hey, don't let me stand in your way.
[01:16:30] Speaker E: I enjoyed your guest. There was just one thing I took exception to, and that is the fact that only men like sports.
[01:16:38] Speaker B: No, I know that. Actually, you know, actually, I have one. My oldest daughter, I should say my older daughter, since I only have two of them, is a great sports fan. Red Sox fan, primarily. Not so much other sports, although I was watching.
[01:16:51] Speaker E: It was very confusing because I watched the playoffs between the Yankees and the Mariners, and for a while, I had them and you on at the same time, which gives me a terrible headache.
[01:17:07] Speaker B: Aren't you nice to, you know, to hang in there? Because I know what a. What a big sports venue.
[01:17:13] Speaker E: It was such an exciting game.
[01:17:14] Speaker B: I know you could have easily turned us off, but it was. That whole series was something fantastic, you know, my young.
[01:17:21] Speaker E: Fortunately, I don't believe they can pick you up in Manhattan.
[01:17:26] Speaker B: No, not in.
[01:17:27] Speaker E: My younger son, who moved to New York 22 years ago, turned into a Yankees fan, which has been very difficult for me.
[01:17:36] Speaker B: Oh, you poor soul.
[01:17:37] Speaker E: I know it. I mean, why couldn't he have knocked over a bank or done something?
[01:17:41] Speaker B: I know I'd better. He ran around wearing women's clothing. Then we come to do that.
[01:17:47] Speaker E: But it was. We promised each other that if either of our teams, the Red Sox or the Yankees, were eliminated, that we would root for the other's team. I was lying.
[01:18:00] Speaker B: Because you wouldn't root for the Yankees no matter what.
[01:18:03] Speaker E: I cannot.
[01:18:04] Speaker B: No, I can't either. I understand that.
[01:18:06] Speaker E: Well, Peter didn't become a baseball fan until about ten, nine years ago. And so he. While he was growing up here, he had not been properly indoctrinated with hatred of the Yankees.
[01:18:21] Speaker B: Well, that's shame. It's about time. You, as a mother, ought to get to work on it.
[01:18:24] Speaker C: I can't.
[01:18:24] Speaker E: Pride. I can't. He lives in New York now, and he points out that I was born in New York and I hate the Yankees. I'm a Red Sox fan. But it was very exciting, Norma, when you were trying to find out the score, unfortunately, I couldn't tell you.
[01:18:40] Speaker B: I know it. And, Edgar, I just. Looking at the results, I saw some of the earlier innings when I was still home. Edgar Martinez hit a two run double in the 11th.
[01:18:49] Speaker E: That's what I wanted for them.
[01:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
What a comeback there. After losing the first two and then winning three in a row, we kept. That would have been an inspiration to us.
[01:19:01] Speaker E: The Yankees have played very badly this year on, on the west coast and particularly in Seattle.
It's funny the way some teams are bad, certain other teams with certain pitchers and the Hanks have not done well on the west coast generally, we, as socks have. But I was thinking, because another thing, which I know I have two sons and two grandsons, so I'm pretty sure I'm a woman, but.
[01:19:35] Speaker B: I certainly will back you up on that, if there's any kind of a doubt.
[01:19:38] Speaker E: I'm also rather phobic about shopping. I loathe it.
[01:19:43] Speaker B: Okay, Cecil. So, yeah, those were kind of stereotypes, I suppose. Although they may apply in most cases, most women. Would you say this? Most women like to shop more so than men in general, you know, I mean, there are exceptions. And I know there are some guys who absolutely have an orgasm when they're shopping for clothing. And I remember when I worked, when I worked closer to television, as did some tv thing, guys would come, come across and say, boy, where did you get that jacket? That is really. But normally people don't. Guys don't really care. I don't care. I'm here.
[01:20:16] Speaker E: And then the other thing is clothes. You know, when you're very charming and amusing. Guest said something about expiration dates on clothes. Sometimes I think I'm rather like, I am not a proper bostonian, but rather like the proper bostonian women, you know, we don't buy our hats. We have our hats. Well, I don't wear hats, but you could change that to clothes and it would fit me.
[01:20:41] Speaker B: No, that. No, because obviously I feel that way. But then again, I fit into her. A general description of men.
[01:20:49] Speaker E: She is so right, though, about asking men, not asking directions, though. I read that there was a reason for that psychologically, that in the early part of the man's life, he listens to women all the time, to his mother, to other women, usually teachers in the early grades or women. And it comes to the point where when woman says anything to him, he won't listen.
[01:21:17] Speaker B: She's the one who says, why don't you ask? Ask somebody, I suppose. Now, I suppose if a woman was driving with me and she did say, ask somebody, I probably would, but you're not. Add to. I think guys figure I got a good. That's a direction. All I need is one or two more blocks and there'll be a sign and I'll find out where I am. What's the point in holding things off by asking for direction? That only takes time. I don't know. Whatever the logic may be, it's really stupid.
[01:21:49] Speaker E: I've heard jokes about it. Why did the Israelites wander in the desert for 40 years? Because Moses wouldn't stop and ask direct.
[01:22:01] Speaker B: No, I think that's true. Men. Men are. I think men are. Men are very often worried about.
About losing their masculinity or appearing less macho than they think they ought to be. It's like they're almost.
If they ask for directions or they do something that's at all feminine, it's like they're being castrated.
The women feel that way, too. Do you feel like you're less of a woman by doing certain things or not doing certain things? Do you have hang ups like that?
[01:22:31] Speaker E: No. No, I don't. Well, again, I think in some ways I'm a little atypical. For example, I think I identified. When I was growing up, I was an only child. I identified more with my father than with my mother.
[01:22:48] Speaker B: Well, because I identify with my mother more than my father. You suppose we're kind of weird.
[01:22:52] Speaker E: And then when they talk about this male bonding thing, father and son, I'm the one who took my sons to their first ball games, not their father.
[01:23:04] Speaker B: There you go.
[01:23:04] Speaker E: And we were still married. This was before we split, you know, so there's no.
[01:23:09] Speaker B: There's no point in putting you in a book, Helene. You don't just don't follow everything you do. You don't follow any of the rules at all. And I wish you'd just stop it, for God's sakes.
[01:23:19] Speaker E: But I just had to get that in. But she was very funny, and I thoroughly enjoyed her, and I thought you were very funny together.
[01:23:26] Speaker B: I thought she was nice. I liked her a lot, and I appreciate you saying that.
[01:23:30] Speaker E: Yeah.
[01:23:31] Speaker B: Take care, and I hope you have a fantastic. Who are you going to root for in the. In the world Series thing?
[01:23:36] Speaker E: Well, I think Cleveland, because they have a better chance of winning, and I hate both of the national League team. I can't stand that stupid tomahawk chop. And the noise. It's not because it's not politically correct. It's just. It's noisy and it's boring.
And I hate march shot, so I can't root for Cincinnati, so I hate them both. And I'm normally an american league router.
[01:24:05] Speaker B: So it's got to be Cleveland, then.
[01:24:07] Speaker E: Yeah. So I think Cleveland. Cleveland has the best chance of winning, of beating them. So I'll have to root for Cleveland.
[01:24:14] Speaker B: Let's combine our predictions, because I would predict that Cleveland is going to be the World Series champion.
[01:24:20] Speaker E: Well, we should have the best record in baseball in either league.
[01:24:23] Speaker B: So is that our combined prediction?
[01:24:25] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:24:26] Speaker B: Cleveland, the world champs.
[01:24:28] Speaker E: Absolutely. I mean, think of it. Think of all the years of ridicule they've caught and threw them. You know, my.
My daughter in law is a native of Cleveland, and both of my grandsons were born there, so that's another reason, though. They don't even feel that way.
[01:24:47] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
We'll stay in touch and see how it comes out.
Bye bye.
[01:24:53] Speaker E: Good night, all.
[01:24:55] Speaker D: The die hard Red Sox been cheering the mariners on all the way.
[01:24:59] Speaker B: Anybody? Anybody but the Yankees.
[01:25:01] Speaker D: Oh, there were two gals from New York, but they. Their applause was drowned out by our side.
[01:25:08] Speaker B: What's the name of the watering hole up here?
[01:25:09] Speaker D: Well, it's called the cannery. And next time you come to men, you've got to come and visit us, because it's a wonderful little place right down on the waterfront.
[01:25:17] Speaker B: Okay, I'd love to, Yamuth.
[01:25:19] Speaker D: And they serve very good food there. Any rate, we. We barflies were cheering the mariners on all the way.
[01:25:26] Speaker B: What a great series that was.
[01:25:27] Speaker D: Oh, wasn't it great?
[01:25:29] Speaker B: And you.
[01:25:32] Speaker D: Got beaten.
[01:25:33] Speaker B: I know it, I know it. And eleven. Any game on top of all of.
[01:25:37] Speaker D: Them, that left hander is some kind of picture.
[01:25:40] Speaker B: Oh, this is my one. Who is that? Women.
[01:25:42] Speaker D: Oh, the one with the long hair. The other one belong here.
[01:25:45] Speaker B: Okay, I keep switching back and forth from. To the. Let's see the sports ticker.
[01:25:52] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:25:52] Speaker B: There. In any case, they wondezenhe in eleven innings, six to five, in case anybody missed that.
[01:25:57] Speaker D: Fantastic.
[01:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
Who are you rooting for, them or Cleveland?
[01:26:02] Speaker D: I'd love to see the mariners do it, but, you know, in the World Series, I'm afraid that there's too much power in Cleveland. And that proved it time and time again to our. To our disgrace.
[01:26:13] Speaker B: I know it, I know it. I know it.
[01:26:15] Speaker D: Now, on the subject of Columbus day, I agree with you. The 9th is not the day to celebrate, particularly since it's my. Was my darling's birthday.
[01:26:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:26:26] Speaker D: And I'm on the way out there on her birthday to see her again. At any rate, you got a trivia tonight?
[01:26:34] Speaker B: Part. No. A trivia?
[01:26:36] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:26:36] Speaker B: No, tonight is just me, and we go off to you at 01:00 today, that is. I do.
[01:26:41] Speaker D: Okay, well, maybe I can get on the show on Friday.
[01:26:44] Speaker B: I would love that very much. Friday or Saturday. Been a long time since being on there. I know you haven't. I miss you. I don't hear you as often as well.
[01:26:53] Speaker D: I've been dragging my, I've been dragging my wing for a few months, Bob. Okay.
[01:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:26:59] Speaker D: Okay.
[01:27:00] Speaker B: Okay. Take care of yourself, Fred.
[01:27:01] Speaker D: I will, buddy.
[01:27:02] Speaker B: Bye bye. Bye bye. I think he was telling, he was talking to Bob Rawley. Did you have that feeling since he called me Bob, if you could tell.
[01:27:09] Speaker C: Me what qualifies her to be a jury consultant.
[01:27:14] Speaker B: I know who you're talking about. And if you mention her name, it will make my stomach run.
[01:27:18] Speaker C: Sorry, I won't, because it would make mine do the same. Boy, can she talk without taking.
[01:27:23] Speaker B: She is, she is, she is one of the biggest fakers of the business. And she, she's, she'll be anything you want her to be. She, at one point, she was teaching something at Bu called.
Now she was teaching doctors stuff like interpersonal relationships so they could have better relationships with their patients. And I thought when we were doing the tv show together, this is a lady who couldn't get along with anybody. The whole thing is inane. It's inane. People, people on television pick anybody to be a consultant and an expert on topics.
[01:28:04] Speaker C: Think they should ask me to be a jury consultant. I expect they get pretty good money.
[01:28:09] Speaker B: Oh, I would think so. I mean, this is the only thing that keeps her going now. She's suddenly a jury, a juror consultant. I mean, give me a break. Holy God. Again, I won't mention her name. I think if I mention, maybe I can be sued for defamation of character at this point.
[01:28:25] Speaker C: So we won't mention it. Okay, tell me, what do you know about Ricky Kleeman? She's a, a very nice person.
[01:28:31] Speaker B: I'm sorry? Ricky who?
[01:28:33] Speaker C: Ricky Kleeman. On Court TV.
[01:28:36] Speaker B: Oh, on court.
[01:28:38] Speaker C: Massachusetts area.
[01:28:40] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I don't know her. I love Court TV. I think they have some very good people there. But I don't, I don't know her specifically.
[01:28:47] Speaker C: I was wondering, you know, I understand she was an attorney here in the Boston area. And I think possibly even a teacher at some law school, maybe Harvard law School. I'm not sure, but I was very impressed by her throughout that trial. So I thought maybe I could get a line on her. I know she is a defense attorney, or an attorney anyways. And I know she was a very, gave a very comprehensive run of that during that trial. I thought you might know more about her.
[01:29:17] Speaker B: No, I'm afraid I don't. I'll have to check her out, though.
[01:29:20] Speaker C: I wanted to give you a check. Oh, when I saw that, I thought.
[01:29:22] Speaker E: Oh, I said, well, Norm will.
[01:29:24] Speaker B: No, I saw that, too, and I said, wait a minute. Can that be who I think it.
[01:29:28] Speaker C: Is, the woman we apply for that job, Norm, maybe it's easier than what we're doing.
[01:29:33] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know. Not if I have the client sitting next to her again. I did that for a whole year on Channel five on the tv show. And I thought, I know, I. Oh.
[01:29:42] Speaker E: Tell me, what does she do for such breath control?
[01:29:46] Speaker C: She has more breast control than Frank Sinatra.
[01:29:48] Speaker B: No, I really. I really not only do not know, but I don't even want to investigate.
[01:29:54] Speaker C: All right, listen, Norm, you have a good night. I enjoy your show.
[01:29:57] Speaker B: Thanks a lot. Okay, thanks. Bye bye. I wonder how many people know who we're talking about. This is a woman who was from around here, who was on local television. I did a tv show on Channel five for a couple of years. She was my co host for one, one of those two years, and now she's in New York or wherever. Wherever. Wherever they're broadcasting from, and suddenly she's become an authority on jurors. She's a juror expert. Anything you watch, she'll be the expert on that, and she can talk people into it. It's absolutely incredible.
[01:30:31] Speaker D: Marblehead, which is where her home was at that time, back in the. She was on four, in fact, prior to working with. For a year, I believe she was on channel four. We won't mention the show, but she. For quite a while.
[01:30:46] Speaker B: Yes, she was on four, and then she had a show, I think, of her own. No, maybe not on five. Maybe once. By time she came to five, we did the show together. Yeah. And some of the idiots who ran channel five at that time decided, because I'd had a couple of co hostesses who were really sweet people the year before, suddenly they placed this person on me without even asking. I don't know. They had a death wish.
[01:31:11] Speaker D: Well, you know, you very seldom, you know, I respect you. You very seldom talk negatively about people in your business. You know, a couple of times here and there you will, but generally, you.
[01:31:24] Speaker B: Don'T like to do it.
[01:31:25] Speaker D: I know you don't feel comfortable doing it, but this woman, no harm. You know, more than anybody, she was the most obnoxious know it all. And I'm talking in, doing a tile job in her home and things like that, and then to watch her on television. And in the last year, you just saw her once. She's been on the CNN, she's been on CNBC with Rivera. She's been on all these shows as a jury consultant. And I say to myself, and I guess the question I have to ask you is, how does someone like this, who obviously does not appeal to most people, I would assume, who is difficult to get along with, with co hosts and with people in the business, how does a woman like this get the credentials and the jobs and meet the people to get in positions that she gets in? Because obviously she's a successful woman.
[01:32:21] Speaker B: Yes, and I admire you. Normally I admire successful women, but not this one. The point is, whether she's liked or not by people in general, or whether she's obnoxious, really probably has not much to do with it. If you can do your job and you're qualified. There are a lot of people in broadcasting, in various fields who are obnoxious, but they do the job. So people tolerate their obnoxious qualities. And it doesn't very often come across on the tube when you watch them or hear them.
I think it does. But then again, I'm probably prejudiced because I did work with her and I found her that way.
[01:32:56] Speaker D: And she was the same way on.
[01:32:57] Speaker B: And off the air. Exactly the same, you know, as a matter of fact. Yeah. No, I couldn't stand her. Well, that's a whole other thing. But how she doctors up her credentials to convince people in high places, networks that she really knows what she's talking about is quite an art. And I suppose you have to admire that, you know, you really have to admire that. Most of us just couldn't get away with that. But she does. Oh, were you there? Delphi's, you mean?
[01:33:25] Speaker D: Yeah, Delphi's. I watched my mother, Norm, campaigning for councillor Lodge and PVC. We were campaigning Westfield yesterday afternoon. We stopped there for lunch. And I was glad to see you, to say hello to you. And I told my mother. That was mom Nathan, from WBZ.
[01:33:38] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that might was there with one of my daughters.
[01:33:41] Speaker D: Yeah, that's a pretty nice restaurant.
[01:33:43] Speaker B: Oh, the food is fantastic. It's one of these, what do they call them, a deli type of restaurant. Well, a deli, but it's more than. More than that, where you see all the foods and trays. I'll have a little bit of that, a little bit of that. And I think the food is great. I love that.
A cafeteria style restaurant is the in Beverly and also in West Peabody. No, downtown PB. It's the same. Same kind of restaurant. Yeah, but the cafeteria style. Really nice.
[01:34:14] Speaker D: Yeah, the brothers are all over the place because there's a big one, a wakefield down. Wakefield. And like you said Beverly Pee wee Salem. They're all over the place and they're all good barley style restaurants.
[01:34:27] Speaker B: Well, they're good. They're good general. Lots of good food. Good, plain, ordinary food at a that the prices are reasonable. I don't know what I'm plugging them for like this.
[01:34:36] Speaker D: Yeah, well.
[01:34:37] Speaker B: But anyway.
Yeah, we go there quite often.
Our producer, hope shower, the lovely Marilyn Garelnik. And me, the almost gosh darn it cheeks, I missed it again. The almost good looking Norm Nathan, person, news coming along. And then Bob Raleigh with you throughout the rest of the night. And I'll see you on the weekend. Okay, bye bye. Olds.
[01:35:01] Speaker A: Yet another one checked off the list. Now, something of note here, I'm not going to end on a downer but I just wanted to mention that both tiny Tim and Norm would be gone within a month of each other the very next year. All right, we got a lot of credits, and they're fun credits. So thanks again for listening and we'll see you all next week. Closing the vault and leaving this world a little sillier than we found it. Four David Naughton, Kane Hodder. Friday the 13th, Jason Voorhees. Spooky world, american werewolves, tiny Tim, slight thrills, marrying a dream, doing your best in praying for the rest. Ernest R. Ball. Mother McCree, sunny boy, Al Jolson. Irving Kaufman. Great thoughts. Hal Bruno. The 1919 Boston police strike, driving with caution. Secondary and tertiary roads, plainsies and clapsies. The Portsmouth Music Hall. Joe Williams. The Harry W. Jones Junior Memorial Scholarship Fund. Dave Seiler and the Seacoast, big band, generosa. The Village Green, St. Adelaide's. Practicing safe radio by putting a condom on each earth. The certifiable genius, Sandra Beckwith. Lustful nymphs, fire, good male bonding, camaraderie, the drudgery of daily chores, crocheted doilies, nicknames, the Doolittle report, burlesque comedians, fun ties, scalding mockery, uterine homing devices, sock mopping. The high fashion industry of broadcasting unduly savage treatment. Clothing exploration labels, the Costume Institute, bake Os, toaster crumbs, the Three Stooges, visual stimulation, the Sipowicz syndrome, Dennis Franz. Greek gods asking for directions, combined predictions. The cannery in Yarmouth Main. Jury consultants Delphi's restaurant, brothers restaurant. Eddie Leclair, Hope Shower, Jack Hart and the very macho and big brained norm Nathan. I'm just a guy, Tony Nesbitt.
[01:37:20] Speaker B: You can't be too careful these days.
