Norm Nathan’s Vault of Silliness w/Tony Nesbitt - Ep 302 - A Delicious Radio 'Della-Chiesa-cy'

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Norm Nathan's vault of silliness. We've got a very special episode, actually. This is Music America with Ron Della Chiesa on 89.7 FM, WGBH here in Boston. Norm was his guest. Now, Music America was ending its 18 year run in a mere week from this point, which was August 22, 1995. This one will be titled A Delicious Radio Delicacy, Delicy Delicacy, Dela Kiese. Man, the creativity just oozes from the speaker. How should I inform you of what's talked about here? There are musical breaks between the segments now due to cop writing. I fade all of them out, but I uploaded a full unedited version to Patreon, Buy Me a Coffee and Kastos. So subscribe or just donate for a month and you can hear it all. What great songs are played throughout? Since I'm talking about that, why don't I list those? First we got Frankie Cap with his version of Midnight Blue. Then Count Basie with Midnight Blue. We hear Sinatra and Ellington come back to me. Stan Getz, thanks for the memories. We got a song by Gus Bavona, Tony Bennett, Second Time Around, Louis Bellson, fascinating Rhythm. Ruby Braff makes an appearance. So does the John Dankwith Orchestra, the Herb Pomeroy Band with Where's Charlie? Bobby Sherwood, the Elks Parade. That is some awesome stuff. And Frankie Cap is back with a Midnight Blue reprise. Then we hear four songs from Sinatra, Too Marvelous for Words, Old Devil Moon, Pennies from Heaven, and Love Is Here to Stay. And we close it out with a couple from Carol Sloan from an album called the Songs Carmen Sang. Why did Norm pick Midnight Blue as his theme for Sounds of the night on HDH? Jess Kane worked for 17 different program directors. I'm not sure about that, but you know, it is entirely possible. And that leads to hearing about Norm's general manager trepidations. There's discussion of radio consolidation bad. All the business changes, the formats, the call letters, this craziness. Memorable and not so memorable interviews that each Ron and Norm have done. Who do they never interview? Who was the best and worst, most controversial and even the possibility that they imagined it all. There's some discussion about Norm's expansive Middleton homestead. Now, I kept the WGBH NPR News update with Korva Coleman. It's not the best newscast and truthfully, I even wondered if we just hit the repeat button here in 2026. But after the news, Ron delivers the shortest weather forecast ever in hour number two. They talk about old Boston jazz clubs And Norm gives a slobbering goodbye with a spectacular yet brief speech. We also hear the official promo announcement about where and what Ron's going to be doing. Classics in the morning weekdays from 8am to 12pm and then the jazz songbook Friday evenings from 7 to 9. Ron also teases some upcoming guests. And then we fade out that Carol Sloan tune to close it down. Episode 302, a delicious radio delicacy serves its way to your ears. In 3, 2 and 1, we'll have [00:03:38] Speaker B: plenty to talk about with Norm. He's never at a loss for words. And who knows? Maybe Marilyn Karelnick will be. Will be here. Perhaps. [00:03:49] Speaker C: But soon we'll replace replacing Music America. I don't know whether any program. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Any. [00:03:54] Speaker C: Any program was going to ever replace Music America. That was really a stupid intro on my part, Ron, and I apologize for that. [00:04:00] Speaker B: No, but I set that up. You know, I was. [00:04:02] Speaker C: I know this sort of gave me a lot of freedom to go ahead and be hilariously funny and whimsical and everything, and. And I really wasn't that at all. But I. I'm so glad to be here. I was thinking you could have ended the end of this month having all those great people you had on as your guests to wish you well, and you could have never asked me, and I would have spent the rest of my life sulking. So thank you for asking me to be. [00:04:28] Speaker B: But I wanted to set you up because this is a. Actually, you. You never heard this version. This is the Frankie Cap version of. Of your old theme, Midnight Blue. [00:04:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Do you remember when you picked that out and why you picked that theme out? [00:04:42] Speaker C: Yeah, the. The original. The original theme was. Was a station promo kind of jingle with the sounds in the night and the owl taste white and the old dog howls stuff. And then they gave the WHDH call letters at the end. That was, you know, the kind of package thing that stations buy. And so they decided to use that as the theme. And then I think the. Fortunately, the. The rights to it ran out or something, and they canceled the package because it was costing the station a lot of money, probably about $3 a year, something like that. And they didn't want to spring for that anyway. So I was just trying to pick some kind of a theme that would be late Night, because at that point we're going on about midnight, kind of late night overnight, kind of quiet. And I just like that a lot. The Midnight Blue from the Count Basie album. [00:05:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:31] Speaker C: I didn't realize Frankie Cap had done that. Isn't the Cap. What am I saying? [00:05:36] Speaker B: That's right. [00:05:37] Speaker C: Frank Capp. [00:05:38] Speaker B: He. He's from Worcester. The drummer from Worcester. I remember. I gotta tell this story because I wish I had a tape for that. But the night. We often talk about people you, you have worked for. And Jess was here the other day. Jess came. He said he worked for 17 different program managers. And one night Jess was. It was your birthday show and your former manager called and it was interesting because you haven't seen this guy in years, but I could still hear the terror in your voice. [00:06:07] Speaker C: I told him that was Bill. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Who was that? [00:06:10] Speaker C: Phil McGrath. Bill McGrath was the general manager. And it always frightened me. And he was in a big office with a big rug. And when you went in to see him, he was way at the other end where his desk was. So you had to walk what seemed like miles with trembling knees. There was something about him that frightened me. I thanked him because he gave me the all night show and that was kind of fun. But anyway, he called. We had a whole bunch of people call the. Wish me well. It was the 49th anniversary, right? And he was on the phone and I told him even though he's retired from radio, was living in Florida, was several thousand miles from where I was just hearing his voice scared me again. I was frightened, just arguing with him. I don't know what I expected him to do. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Well, when you described the office, it was like going in to see Louis B. Mayer. [00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it was like that. [00:07:01] Speaker B: You walked in there and there's this guy sitting up on a pedestal. [00:07:04] Speaker C: Are you, are you, are you frightened at all by, by like general managers? Because I still am. I still don't like to talk to them. This guy frightened me particularly, but most of them frighten me anyway. To a lesser extent, yeah. Not as good, you know. You're a brave kind of soul, aren't you? You're not intimidated by that kind of stuff. [00:07:21] Speaker B: You know, in commercial radio, it's a whole, it's a whole like if you miss a spot or something and the guy who owns the restaurant calls up or if you blow a spot on the air, you know, things like that. I'm always watching that and you do too, on tv when they cut into a spot and they, they, they cut at the 30 seconds and you say the guys in the control room are catching hell and all of that. [00:07:42] Speaker C: Oh, I guess because I lose a spot on television, they've lost about $73 trillion. Each spot is so expensive. But he would call me and Bill McGrath would call me. And not even for that number one, he didn't. He hated this kind of music, which is what I was playing. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:57] Speaker C: And he just, he couldn't get used to the idea of playing this. He thought I should play what people seem to be wanting. Although I don't know how he knew what people were wanting. There was a song, for example, called Pink Shoelaces, which was at the beginning of the kind of the rock era. It was a stupid song. I remember we had a music meeting and he played that and said, this is the kind of stuff we should be playing. And it was just awful, awful stuff. Anyway, so I had to really sneak in all this lovely stuff that you're, that you're playing. The Cleo Lane and the Duke Ellington and all that. [00:08:29] Speaker B: Well, in a way, you know, Music America was an extension of, I always felt, of sounds in the night only during the afternoon, creating that kind of ambiance of a show. It could be eclectic and have people dropping in. And you had that happen. [00:08:43] Speaker C: It's nice to have you, to have had you on during the daytime. That was always good. I told you the last time we were talking about this, that working out in the garden or, or even mucking out the horse's stall. I think of you now, even while mucking out the horse's stall. I would have you on our little portable radio and it made the day very, very pleasant. [00:09:03] Speaker B: How poignant, how beautiful. [00:09:05] Speaker C: But you don't understand. When you live in the country, that kind of muck that you're mucking is like gold. It's good fertilizer and everything. So if you don't mind being associated with it, I find it very comforting. [00:09:16] Speaker B: Not at all. Matter of fact, I, I love the movie Babe. We went to see that recently about the little pig. That's a, that's a movie. You should. [00:09:24] Speaker C: I want very much to see that. Yes, I'd love to see that. [00:09:26] Speaker B: Listen, the old sport is here himself, Norm Nathan. I, I can't tell you what a delight it is to have him here as we count down to the end of our 18 year run. And we're going to be back with norm here at 89.7 WGBH Boston. Don't you go away. [00:09:51] Speaker C: Thank you very much for playing that. That is, that brings back so many lovely memories. And incidentally, an awful lot of people have been talking about the, the fact that you'll be going off there with this program in another. Another week. Is it? [00:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah, just wait, we're getting down there. [00:10:07] Speaker C: And so much sadness by A lot of performers and a lot of non performers and people have called me at my own radio station because they heard you mention the fact that I would be on with you and they thought that was kind of nice and to wish you well on behalf of a whole lot of them. So you'll be. Well, you know that obviously you're at the center of the storm. So you've been hearing from a lot of people, but I have too, even being out in the fringe of it. So we will miss you a lot and I'll miss all the lovely things that you've been playing. I know you're going to continue to play them Friday nights and all of that, but it's been a pleasure. Ewan mucking out the stalls. [00:10:44] Speaker B: And you're going to be working for Mickey Mouse. Right, Because Westinghouse was sold to Disney. [00:10:49] Speaker C: Well, if Ted Turner doesn't step in and out bid Westinghouse. But I think there's a big sale on now. Westinghouse trying to sell a lot of washes and things to try to raise enough capital so they can outbid Ted Turner. So we'll just see whether they do. I was thinking of perhaps buying a. I'm in a market for Dude Westinghouse, a new, new dryer and I might get a Westinghouse just to keep them in business longer. Yeah, I'd like to see them. You know, would it be nice to work? [00:11:13] Speaker B: Rumor has it that, that you had abandoned on Rockefeller Center. That's up grabs. All of these great things are being sold and we notice that. I mean we never used to sell these things when we, we were kids. [00:11:24] Speaker C: I mean and, and radio stations now companies can own tons of radio stations. You tick off one management and you're, you're gone from that. From four other stations in the same market at one time. You go across the street to. But they are the competitor. I don't really like the direction this whole business is going in. GBH is one of the few. Can I say independent stations. Is it independent? It's owned locally. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Is it not foundation? [00:11:50] Speaker C: It's a foundation which is local. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:53] Speaker C: You can't say that about many other stations, commercial or especially commercial. [00:12:00] Speaker B: Some of those little stations, you know, in the suburbs are owned by like just a, you know, an individual like [00:12:06] Speaker C: WSX and WJDA owned by the same person, right? A handful like that. [00:12:10] Speaker B: A handful. I'm going to play this because you, you have interviewed. Did you ever interview Sinatra at all? [00:12:18] Speaker C: Never, never interviewed. I interviewed his son. Just about everybody but my Son was going to set his. Him up to be interviewed in some way, but it never worked out. Now, I would have loved to interview, ask him really tough questions, then have him hit me in the mouth. [00:12:31] Speaker B: How about Ellington? Duke? [00:12:34] Speaker C: No, I never interviewed Ellington either. I interviewed some musicians from his band. Count Basie, Woody Herman, and most every other band leader. Never Ellington either. [00:12:42] Speaker B: That's interesting because those are the two that I never. It's similar that you. You would run up against the same kind of thing of Duke and. Because I missed Duke, I heard him live, but I never interviewed him. And Sinatra's impossible interview, although he said on the Larry King show once that Larry said, you seem to be a difficult guy to get a hold of. He says, nobody asked me. [00:13:02] Speaker C: Really? [00:13:02] Speaker B: Yes. So I wrote a letter and he still didn't answer it. [00:13:06] Speaker C: You know who else, I just wondered who else you would have liked to have interviewed that you didn't get a chance to. One other one that I never could interview was Kyman McCrae. And I love the way she sang. I thought kind of a little chilly on the edges, but a lovely style. I thought she was really good. Never would come on the show with me. Never. I remember sitting at a club, some kind of a thing, and I was talking with Buddy Rich, who was there, and Buddy was saying, you ought to go on with Norm because he's kind of fun. I think you'd enjoy it. And she said, no. And other times I'd call her. She would never come on. Did you ever interview her? [00:13:42] Speaker B: Never interviewed Carmen. [00:13:43] Speaker C: Oh, I feel better about that. [00:13:44] Speaker B: So here's two people we never interviewed. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Who else would you have liked to have interviewed that you never did? [00:13:50] Speaker B: We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that after this. And that's a good. That's a good, you know, question. Also. The toughest interviews we had would be. [00:14:00] Speaker C: All right, excellent, excellent. [00:14:01] Speaker B: Norm Nathan, the old sport here. [00:14:04] Speaker C: Take a train, steal a car, hop a freight, Grab a star, Come back to me. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Ellington in Sinatra. Norm Nathan is here with us. And those are. Those are two giants that we never get a chance to interview. Well, Duke is gone, Sinatra's still around, but impossible to get to in terms of an interview. Except for Larry King. [00:14:30] Speaker C: No, the closest I got was his son saying he was going to get a tape of a personalized tape that Sinatra, Frank Sinatra's father, would make and send to me. I never even got that. I wasn't thrilled with that. I wanted to talk with him, but I never even got that. [00:14:45] Speaker B: I was supposed to interview Frank Jr. A few weeks ago down at Tavern on the Green and had the thing set up with Lenny Triolo, who books it and wake. I get down. They were the recorder. Saw the show. It was a great band. Carl Fontana, he didn't want to do it after the. After the show. He's sort of like not comfortable, you know, really public. Yeah. [00:15:03] Speaker C: So he doesn't sing at all anymore. Not that he ever sang all that well to begin with, but. But he mostly conducts the orchestra. [00:15:11] Speaker B: He's sang a couple of things. This was his own band, his own engagement. [00:15:16] Speaker C: Oh, I see. [00:15:16] Speaker B: The Frank Sinatra Jr. Orchestra at Tavern in the. Great. Okay. The worst interviews. [00:15:22] Speaker C: The worst interview I've ever had, or. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Some of the worst. [00:15:25] Speaker C: Some of the worst, yeah. Some of the worst. [00:15:27] Speaker B: There were. [00:15:27] Speaker C: There were a number of. Anita o' Day was probably. I'd rank her high among the lowest. [00:15:32] Speaker B: Me too. You too? Right there with you. [00:15:34] Speaker C: Yeah. She came up with a little dog, which is okay because I have animals too. That's okay. But the dog. We were our studios with Park Square still at that time, St. James Place, where the old Greyhound Bus terminal was. And she had to come upstairs. We had to get this night watchman, the security guard, since it was the paid furniture building, was not owned by whdh. We had to get him to bring the guests up, and I had to beg and plead him. The only time he ever was cooperative was when he was drunk. So we tried to get him drunk, then he'd be jovial. Anyway, so she gave him a bad time to begin with, and he was not even going to bring her up. And finally he did. We're talking. And after about the fourth question, she's. While her dog, by the way, is chewing away at the wires on the floor. I don't know why there were wires on the floor. It must have been wired badly there. And I thought, the dog is going to get electrocuted or we all are and we'll be off the air. And I try to suggest to her that maybe it might be best if she confines him to one area away from the. But she would have none of that. And after about the fourth question, she said, what is this, some kind of an inquisition? I was just asking her questions very gently. She was mean and she was tough. [00:16:45] Speaker B: That little dog is on her label, Emily Records. [00:16:48] Speaker C: Oh, really? [00:16:48] Speaker B: Little dog? A sketch of the dog. [00:16:50] Speaker C: No kidding. [00:16:50] Speaker B: My Anita Roday story, similar to yours. She came in and I was doing the interview and we were in progress and I was playing a record and I asked her One question, then put the record on. Then I turned around and she had split. Oh, no good. She just walked out. I mean, it was. [00:17:06] Speaker C: You were probably better off. Even though it may not have seemed that at the time, Johnny Hodges was a toughie. The saxophone alpha sax player with the Ellington band in the sense that when we were on the air he would not answer anything straight. He would change his voice, he would say, I'm not Johnny Hodges, I'm his son, or I'm his father, or. And he would not end. Then I. I play a record. And while. While the record was on, he would then talk straight and everything. So I thought, he'll be okay after this next time. And as soon as the record ended and I start talking with him, he would go through all this gibberish again. Never could get anything straight out of the guy. You ever talked with him? [00:17:43] Speaker B: Never met Hodges. [00:17:44] Speaker C: Oh, he was. I thought maybe he was. I don't know what the problem was. [00:17:49] Speaker B: We call his classic moments in. In radio with the old sport Norm Nathan and Ron Della Keyza Here as we count down to the end of our 18 year run, here's a gentleman who is always up. There were stories about him being a tough interview and he went through rough periods in his life. But toward the end of his life last year, he was an actual absolute pussycat to be around Stan Getz. [00:18:14] Speaker C: Oh, I love the way he played. No, I never interviewed him. You, you did that? [00:18:16] Speaker B: Apparently I did thanks to Charlie Lake and Jimmy Falzone who brought him in. But this is. This kind of fits in with what we're talking about, Norm. This is. Thanks for the memory. Stan had a sound that was just unrivaled beautiful. Is that lovely? So. No, no, it's so beautiful. [00:18:42] Speaker C: Beautiful, yeah. [00:18:43] Speaker B: What a musician. [00:18:44] Speaker C: That's the lovely sound that Ben Webster had. That cushiony kind of gentle, floating kind of thing. Scott Hamilton among. Well, I guess not among the newer people because he's been around for a long time too, has that. That's a. That's the kind of a saxophone that's so lovely. If I could play saxophone, I could play it like that. I'd lock myself in my room and I play hours, maybe for days. Never come out, no food, nothing. Just listen to myself playing all this. [00:19:10] Speaker B: Wouldn't it be great to go like in the middle of the Longfellow Bridge at night and just play, you know, like at 2 or 3 in the morning like Sonny Rollins. [00:19:17] Speaker C: Oh, Sonny Rollins did on the bridge. Yeah, that's right. [00:19:20] Speaker B: No, people ask me, they enjoy Your BZ radio show, as a matter of fact, you come in. I mean, you get the signal on BZ at night is phenomenal. But they asked me a question, and I never thought to ask you. Is there something in the license that says you can't play records over there or. [00:19:38] Speaker C: Yeah, they don't have a license. You know, you have a BMI and ASCAB license to. To play music. We don't have it. And if you don't have it, it was like when I was with Wei, when they were all news. They didn't have a license either. So even when we were reviewing records, you could play 30. You could play up to 30 seconds after that. I mean, you can't. You're in violation of something. And I guess I thought. I thought maybe the license fee was cheap and they were even cheaper and wouldn't pay it. But I'm told depending on the range of the station and the size, it can be quite expensive. And they feel they're. They mostly talk in news and they don't play much music anyway, so why spend for that? I think they should spend for that. Just so every now and then I could play a Mel Torme thing. [00:20:19] Speaker B: I was just thinking, you know, can you imagine you easing back in the sounds of the night, you know, slowly, you know, doing that. [00:20:26] Speaker C: I'd love to be able to do that talk and music program, I think would be nice. [00:20:31] Speaker B: But you do have some interesting calls. And I notice when you do get a listener that is attractive to you, you're staying with it for a while. [00:20:41] Speaker C: We've had a fair amount of jazz musicians on. I have them on even though I can't play their music, which probably is kind of silly, or might play a little bit of it. I've talked with Mel Torme and George Shearing. Herb Pomeroy was in the studio one night. We were talking about when he retired. He hasn't really retired, but he was stepping down from the Berkeley school and all that. So I try to. I mean, I still haven't forgotten my real great love, which is this kind of music. So I have them on whenever I can, even though I really can't play much of what they've recorded. Carol Sloan was on, too, also, and I know she's been on sitting in a few a whole lot of times. Yeah, she's been on with me there. And she was on the old show, too, which is. She must be an old lady. I didn't realize she was not an old lady. No, no, no, no. But she sat in With Sounds of the Night, and that hasn't been in almost 30 years. No, I don't think of her as an old age. [00:21:42] Speaker B: When she started in the business, I think she was 16, you know, on the road with the. With Les Elgard. I think. I think she was just a teenager when she went out on the road. The old sport. Norm Nathan is here. Memorable interviews and not so memorable interviews we. We've had is our topic, and we'll get back to that, because I want to play a Gus Bavona record for you. [00:22:04] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, Gus Bavona, the clarinet player. [00:22:06] Speaker B: And I know we both interviewed Woody Herman, right? There was a. Yes, there was a beautiful guy. [00:22:11] Speaker C: He was a real class act. [00:22:12] Speaker B: We'll talk. [00:22:13] Speaker C: You know, in later years, he looked like my father. I'll tell you about that another day. He did exactly like my father. I saw him down at the South Shore Music Theater with his band playing opposite Lionel Hampton. And he came out, I thought, my father, suddenly he's got hip. He walked and exactly the same. We had the same face, the same big nose. It was kind of weird to watch it. [00:22:43] Speaker B: Woody Herman, who looked like Norm Nathan's father. [00:22:46] Speaker C: Yeah, especially later years, because my father was. Obviously was old. He died at age of 92. I don't. I know that Woody was younger than that, but he was kind of stooped over and could have built the same way. Didn't talk. The voice quality wasn't exactly the same, but the face, it was weird. It was like watching my father conduct this great orchestra. It was like dreams of glory. It was like a fantasy. Hi, dad. Play the Woodchopper's ball once more for me, babe. You know. Anyway, I'm rambling on in my usual kind of incoherent manner, but Woody was, [00:23:19] Speaker B: when you talk about interviews, one of the nicest guys to be around. He was very sorry. [00:23:22] Speaker C: He loved his grandchildren. [00:23:23] Speaker B: Do you remember that? [00:23:24] Speaker C: He would talk about his grandchildren. I think they were. They meant more to him, I think, than his orchestra did. But he loved. He loved talking about them. I made one mistake, though. Remember? He was in a. I think he was in an automobile accident or some serious thing. He was in the hospital. And I called the hospital because I had heard he was getting better now, and I thought. I just wanted to check up on him and say how he's doing. And we went on the air live with the interview. And the poor soul, I mean, obviously was still suffering. And he was kind of out of it because he'd been heavily medicated. And that's One of the few interviews I've really, I really hate myself for. We should not have done that. But I didn't know what his response would be till I got him on the air and I was led to believe he'd be okay. [00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:06] Speaker C: And he really wasn't. And I, you know, I put him in a bad position, but he was even nice about that. Buddy Rich was another interesting guy who, who a lot of people hated, but I found him to be charming. I mean, he didn't call upon his musicians to do anything he wouldn't have done. Even after heart attacks, the guys there, you're thinking, slow down, fellow. I don't want you to die in front of me. And I used to introduce him as one of the top 10 regional drummers in the Northeast, that kind of stuff. And, you know, normally he would throw something at you with that kind of. But he was really funny. You could joke with him and he joked back. [00:24:45] Speaker B: You could, you could. I think that, you know, among his younger musicians, though, he was a taskmaster. But if he knew where you were coming from and you set up the interview, you're right, he could be charming. I remember doing an interview in his bus with him, and Joyce bought him a meatball sandwich. It was the greatest thing. You could bring this guy on the roll, he says, you know, a meatball sandwich and then meatball sandwich. And he had his terry cloth robe on. Remember that? Because he used to change between every, every, every set. He had changed because he was perspiring. So it was incredible. [00:25:19] Speaker C: Well, Nathan is here. What I thought was, oh, okay, I'll be quiet. I was just thinking, go ahead. No, I interviewed a Rosemary Cloney. You're talking about Harborfest and all that, and some of the performers there. I, I, I interviewed him once, I guess, just before she came in for that. And one of the questions I asked her, and I know you must have asked this question of singers also. Are there certain songs that mean so much to you emotionally that you don't dare sing them for fear that you're going to break down before you get through them all? Some singers have songs like that, or they claim they can sing them. They sing them over and over again to themselves and in rehearsal to get to a point where it doesn't affect them that much. But there got to be some songs that are so. Where the lyrics are so tied in with maybe difficult or romantic, difficult parts of their lives that they just cannot sing that song. I really don't get to interview singers all that much anymore, so I Haven't been able to follow up on that, but I wondered if that might be an interesting subject for a magazine article or something like that. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Well, Mel Torme told a story about a recording session he had in London and he. He said he almost couldn't get through a song because his marriage was. Was breaking up. And he recorded this thing with Michelle Legrand and he told that story on the air, but I can't remember the name of the song. He said he actually broke up in the middle of the song. Yeah, kind of thing. In the middle of a, you know, divorce. He was just a. Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker C: There's got to be. There's got to be a lot of. A lot of performers who have a song like that. That, that is just very difficult. [00:26:56] Speaker B: Here's a. I, I think we'll have to agree on this one. Anytime you, you interview Tony Bennett is a joy because what you see is what you get, you know, every time. Tony Bennett. And he said, I know you've been many, many times that he's come sitting [00:27:22] Speaker C: right where you are and those blue eyes kind of pop right out of his head. The bluest eyes I've ever seen. A nice, gentle kind of man and a lovely painter, too, and all that kind of thing. A very, very nice man who sings a song like he's living the experience right at that very moment. I wonder if there's a song he can't sing because it brings back too many difficult memories. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Never thought to ask him. [00:27:48] Speaker C: Promise me you'll ask him next time at the beginning. [00:27:49] Speaker B: I will. You know, and we were talking about the changes in our business and how much, you know, radio has changed since you started, for example, from AM to FM and then to stereo. And the call it is, the old call it is, you know, that we used to have. They're no longer around, if they've even changed frequencies. So you don't know what those stations were. [00:28:14] Speaker C: A lot of times they don't give the call letters more than they have to. And so that's not very often. And as a result, it's, you know, 72. Poo poo or whatever the kind of music is they're playing. I'm exaggerating because I couldn't come up with a funny line, but it's, you know, jamming or oldies or something. You know, I've been in radio now. I hate to say this because it'll turn off all the young women who I really like. 51 years. Last May was 51 years. So I've been here since there was A handful of AM stations, no FM stations. And the major AMs were this network station. Anyway, what I'm saying is through the years, despite the fact that I've been around that long, up to now, I don't. I've lost track of what stations are, what. They've changed call letters so much. They've. Formats. They change in the middle of a commercial. You don't know what they're going to play that afternoon. You know, we. Country. We didn't do country. We're going to play Albanian music backwards. That's going to be a. Nobody's doing it in the city, you know. And our consultant at St. Paul, Minnesota says that's the way to go. So I, I've totally lost track. I don't even know how to find stations on the dial anymore. Thank goodness for gbh, which is there at the same place, which is nice. [00:29:31] Speaker B: They can find you too in BZ 89.7. [00:29:34] Speaker C: I wanted to show you I wasn't just making that up. [00:29:36] Speaker B: And you're 103 0, right? [00:29:37] Speaker C: 10, 10, 3 0. That's right. And we, you know, it's always been WBZ. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Of course. [00:29:42] Speaker C: I miss the fact that there's no WHDH anymore. I still can't get used to the fact that that's wei. Still think of the other one and WHDH we used to have fun with because we used to have Fish News. And so we told people WHDH stood for we have fresh haddock. [00:29:57] Speaker B: I like that. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Oh, we have dead headache. I'm sorry, Fresh headache. Doesn't make sense. [00:30:00] Speaker B: We have dead headache. [00:30:02] Speaker C: We have dead headache. Yeah. We used to have to read Fish News Every morning. A 50 minute report of how many boats were coming into Boston. [00:30:09] Speaker B: You could build a whole jingle around that, you know, with Debussy's La Mer or something. I want to play Louis Bellson because you talk about another, you know, peach of a guy, Louie. He'll be here tomorrow, by the way. He's coming in. [00:30:23] Speaker C: Louie will be here tomorrow. [00:30:24] Speaker B: He's going to do a cooking with jazz Friday and Saturday. Oh yeah, he's going to come in tomorrow after Chris Lydon is here. So that'll be. [00:30:31] Speaker C: Oh, so you're going to have Chris Lydon and Louis Belson. A big double header tomorrow, back to back. Excellent. [00:30:36] Speaker B: You're gonna like this one. This is, this is Louie doing Fascinating Rhythm. No, Nathan is here. Countdown to the end of our 18 year run. And we're still, we're still running. Oh, yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker C: That's so nice. That's so nice. These guys. These guys just. I hate to say whale, because it sounds like a 1950s or 40s hippie, but they do, really do, and they make it sound just so easy. So just lovely. I'm sorry. I feel so badly that I won't be able to tune in during the daytime, during the week and catch you, because music like that ought not to be lost. So many people enjoy it. I don't understand what the standards are in presenting music or changing programming or anything, but there are an awful lot of disappointed people. Not right this second because they're hearing you and they're listening to that music, but anticipating the end of the program in another week or so. And that's pretty sad. I wish you well and I know you'll still be around. So I think what we can do is I'll tune you in because I do like classical music a lot, too. Tune you in, and then when you introduce something, maybe I'll turn the radio down and then throw on a jazz thing and pretend that you've. That you've introduced it. Well, that'll be kind of nice. So I can do my own Ron Delachi as a program at home. I want to do that. Yeah. [00:32:10] Speaker B: How are the animals going to adjust to this? You know, you live on a farm, and I know you spend a lot of time on your farm. [00:32:17] Speaker C: Well, it's not really a farm exactly. I have chickens. I have a couple of huge dogs. The. You mind if I go through the itinerary of the animals? It takes two seconds. It's not a big deal. I have these Newfoundlands that are the size of St. Bernard's you know, big work dogs, too, and three cats, and that's about the size of it. At one point, I was going to get some goats and sheep, and I thought, I don't know. That doesn't allow me much time to listen to Ron while I'm mucking up a stable. [00:32:46] Speaker B: But you're out there early in the morning, huh? [00:32:48] Speaker C: Well, at some point, there's a lovely lady who lives in Dorchester who loves horses. And so she comes out and takes care of my horse and rides her and stuff. And she actually. She does the mucking out. I just. I did that for dramatic effect, just so it's an even swap. She can ride the horse and pretend it's hers, and all I have to do is pay the bills. And then she comes up, but she exercises the horse and all that. And I love looking outside and seeing the horse in the paddock, you know, munching away at the grass. It's a nice scene. [00:33:19] Speaker B: How about saying a few words about this gentleman, Ruby Brass? We both know him and you've known him for years. Ruby. [00:33:25] Speaker C: Yeah, Ruby's a. Yeah, a long, long time. Of course, he's from this area. He lives down on the Cape now, and I caught him not long ago. He played not Scholars, but Regatta Bar. The Regatta Bar, Right. And he's not well. He has lung disease. He's got emphysemas on her face. And I. I couldn't imagine how he would play, but he played magnificently. He sustained notes and everything. Yeah, I. I can. He. He came up for an interview one night and I nearly lost my job. Those were much milder times when you said less than you could now. But a great. A great musician. [00:34:09] Speaker B: That's Ruby Brad. [00:34:10] Speaker C: That give you. Didn't that give you goosebumps, that. That sound? Every day he plays in such a lovely Roman. It's a pleasure to have Mara. [00:34:18] Speaker B: He does. And came out of. I think Ruby grew up in Mattapan. When he was a kid, I believe. [00:34:24] Speaker C: I believe so. He was on the show. We're talking about how radio has changed through the years. At one time, Ruby was on. He was in a. He was in a show, a Rogers and Hammerstein show. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Pipe dream was that. [00:34:36] Speaker C: Pipe dream. He came out as a. As a Mexican with a big hat and there was a quartet or something like. And he played. He played the cornet there and they're playing. Anyway, he came on the show afterwards and he was a feisty little guy back then, and he came on and talked about. He started blasting George Wein. I guess he's been having a feud with him all through the years. And he started blasting other things, including Oscar. Not Oscar Hammerstein, but Richard Rodgers. And nowadays, I mean, you look for that and it's mild. And radio, they go out of their way, people do, to try to get controversy going. But then we didn't, and the management was ready to fire me for that. And, you know, everything was kind of like, I don't know, Goody Two Shoes kind of radio. This is Goody Two Shoes Radio. Goody Two Shoes round the clock. So you couldn't say anything bad. I remember Charlie Mingus came on, the great bass player, and he started saying, how many black people do you have working here? And I said, I don't know. Not many. I think only the janitor at that time was black. We didn't integrate radio for a while. And he started going into that. I mean, now I mean, it seems funny to think that there was a taboo. I mean, almost everything was taboo back then. And it's. I mean, mercifully, it isn't anymore. So that's one of the good things about radio, I think, that we've grown up and we do talk issues. Sometimes we talk issues that are. That are not worth talking about. But. But basically, at least we do. We don't shy away from things that people ought to be discussing. Thank you very much. I'll be back in a moment with a postscript. [00:36:13] Speaker B: What was that great Green street line? I love Joy talking with a man who likes to talk. I think that's in Maltese Falconism. Anyway, Norm Nathan is here with us, and you wanted to ask me a question before the news. [00:36:26] Speaker C: Yes, I did. [00:36:28] Speaker B: And did you forget the question? [00:36:30] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. [00:36:31] Speaker C: No, I remember, in fact, when I was listening to Cleo Lane, when you're playing her earlier with Duke Ellington's orchestra, I was thinking of all the times I have seen her, which is a fair amount of time, and all that. And then one time popped into my mind, and it was at somebody's house. There was a party there, and I couldn't think of what it was for. It was a fundraiser, a private fundraiser, and this was the kickoff. She was there with her husband. And then I began thinking, did that really happen? And how come does life get to be a blur with you after a while where you think back and you can't remember where you were when? Or did you really see that? Or did you just imagine you were there, where reality and fantasy become all mixed up? You're as nutty as I am. Does that happen to you? [00:37:20] Speaker B: I've had a couple of those recurring dreams that are like that, that I can't see, separate from reality, from fantasy, that I'm interviewing Sinatra, but I never really did. We talked about that earlier. [00:37:32] Speaker C: Yeah, because I was thinking about this private party with Clay Olaine, and I thought, was there really a private party where she played? Or did I imagine that because it seemed kind of funny to go up to somebody's apartment. I can't remember where it was, but as I thought more of it, it did really happen. But that happens a lot to me. I can't remember whether I really sat and talked with these people or whether I did not. [00:37:55] Speaker B: Now, you mentioned Cleo Lane, and you can't remember whether that Anthony Quinn is somebody. I can't remember. I think vaguely I remember interviewing him, but it may have been in a dream kind of situation that's a whole other show, right? Yeah, that's great, Norm. Can you stick around? [00:38:12] Speaker C: No, I'd love to because otherwise maybe I can beat the traffic if I stay here a little longer. [00:38:17] Speaker B: I got news coming up, and then I'd love to have you come in and regale us with more of these stories and maybe tell us about Marilyn and, you know, that whole scene. [00:38:25] Speaker C: Okay. [00:38:26] Speaker B: All right. Norm Nathan, the old sport here as we count down to the end of our our 18 year journey. And Norm has certainly inspired a lot of what went into this show as a humorist and also as a radio artist and a guy who just digs the sound. So this is speaking of Cleo Lane. This is her better half, John Dankworth with his orchestra. Don't go away because we're gonna we're gonna be back with our guest, norm Nathan and 55 more minutes of the sounds of Music America right here on 89.7 WGBH, Boston. Following this pause for news and weather. [00:39:15] Speaker D: From National Public Radio News. In Washington, I'm Korva Coleman. Israeli officials say they've arrested Islamic militants who allegedly planned this week's bus bombing in Jerusalem. The blast killed five people, including an American teacher and the suicide bomber. The officials say those arrested are also suspected in a similar attack last month in Tel Aviv. The militant Islamic group Hamas has claimed responsibility for both attacks. The United nations says more than 133,400 frightened refugees are running into the hills and countryside of Zaire. The Zaire and government is tired of housing the refugees and decided to expel them back to their hostile homelands. Many are from Rwanda. NPR's Michael Scholar, who's in Gomezair, reports. The refugees don't have food and water. [00:40:06] Speaker B: There are some camps that are completely empty near Bukavu, which is right on the border with Rwanda. And from what I'm hearing and seeing, there are people that clearly are going into the countryside and into the hills to hide. The big concern on the part of the UN Is that these are all people that have been receiving regular food supplements, and now that they're going into the hills, there's absolutely no way to get food to them. And the concern is that they're not going to have clean water, they're not going to have enough food, and people are going to start getting sick. And there'll be another sort of humanitarian crisis with all these that are fleeing. [00:40:40] Speaker D: Despite the grim situation, Zaire says it'll stop still force out refugees. The UN is sending its high commissioner for refugees to Zaire and hopes she will be able to pressure the government to change its mind. The UN's top arms inspector says Iraq isn't a military threat to its neighbors anymore. Ralph Akeyes says Baghdad no longer has the ability to strike with chemical weapons or long range missiles. He told reporters in Jordan today Iraqi authorities have helped their case by divulging the more information. [00:41:10] Speaker B: We must recall that the information has been given, but we need to verify and see that it is true information and that we can only do through original documents to interview weapons people having been involved in the production, interview and examine the data and do a lot of analytical work, plus our ground inspection. [00:41:36] Speaker D: Aqaya says there are some new details of Iraq's biological warfare industry that must still be studied. He says he's gotten more information on the weapons program from a high level Iraqi defector who led his country's efforts to get weapons of mass destruction. A Massachusetts state judge says John Southey is competent to stand trial for two murders at Boston area women's clinics that perform abortions. The judge rejected the defense. Defense claims Salvi is unfit for trial because he suffers from schizophrenia. Prosecutors had argued Salvi methodically planned to attack the clinics for months and therefore is mentally fit to stand trial. On Wall street, the Dow Jones is off more than 31 points at 4,589. This is NPR. [00:42:21] Speaker B: And the weather will have tonight variable cloudiness, lows around 65. Tomorrow will be a nice day, sunny, breezy, warmer than today, highs around 90 degrees. Just a reminder that we're here because of you. We thank you for your generous member contributions and also we thank the 700,000 women and men who are the members of the Laborers International Union of North America who join in bringing you the live Boston Symphony broadcast from Tanglewood every Sunday afternoon. Back with our guest, the old sport, Norm Nathan here on the Music America show on WGBH Boston. I was telling our guest Norm Nathan that that was, that was composed for Charlie Lake. [00:43:11] Speaker C: That is nice. That is something to hear. The Hurt Pomeroy Band again. [00:43:14] Speaker B: Where's Charlie? Who's the band boy with the band? Her Pomeroy Band back when this was recorded in the 50s and guys you know, we know Herb Palmer of course playing so Gene destasio and Jimmy Mosher. [00:43:28] Speaker C: Oh yeah, bring him back. It's good to hear those names again. Lovely musicians, all of them. And of course all of us used to crowd into the stables. Crowding is probably the right word for it because a little club who doesn't exist in any form anymore. It's at the end of the Mass pike, coming into Copley Square. And we go in there. I don't know why it never sounded loud. He was a big band, wailing big sixteen piece band. They're really going. And the club is about the size of the average bathroom in a condominium. I try to give picturesque phrases so you can picture what I'm talking about. See, I know you can picture the size anyway. And the band. You'd be sitting right in front of the band, you know, no matter where you sat. And they're blowing and they're wailing and why it never sounded loud. [00:44:18] Speaker B: I just thought something. When you said that actually the band played in the bathroom and you were sitting in the club, you know, made it even more intimate. [00:44:26] Speaker C: I. I wondered about the flushing. [00:44:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it was small and there was a ramp you had to go down. Do you remember the ramp? Yeah, I do remember. There was. The bar was. You'd walk in, the bar was on the left. And then you'd walk down this ramp and you'd be in this place. [00:44:42] Speaker C: It was kind of a respite from the show bar, remember, which was right next door, right with Freddie hall. And she's all dolled up. There was a guy couldn't sing at all, but I mean, he was so beloved. Southie is my hometown, remember? It's kind of funny that whole. That whole block course no longer exists. [00:44:57] Speaker B: Doesn't exist. [00:44:57] Speaker C: Did it ever exist or do you think we're just fantasizing that it existed? [00:45:01] Speaker B: I think it's the same thing we were talking about before. [00:45:03] Speaker C: Were we there? [00:45:04] Speaker B: You know, were we in Mechanics hall or the Brunswick Hotel? [00:45:09] Speaker C: Very heavily. Are you going to be able to do philosophical stuff like this on your new morning show? I'm going to try because I think I'd miss it if you did not do it. [00:45:19] Speaker B: But when you think about that period in Boston, Norm, really, you do wonder if it existed because so much of it is gone. The old Boston Opera House, for example. I was talking about that the other day to anybody who was. How could you forget being in that place? Do you remember? It was like the diamond horseshoe. [00:45:37] Speaker C: Yes, I remember. Was it Joe Fitzgerald who quoted you as saying that also? And you were mentioning, you know, that if that were in Europe, that building would still be standing. I think maybe if it could have stood a little bit longer, it might be. I think we have a different attitude about tearing down old lovely places like that. I have a feeling we're not as apt to do it. Do you think so, Otto? Maybe that's not true. [00:45:57] Speaker B: Well, do you think Fenway will go? I mean, that's a big question. [00:46:01] Speaker C: They're talking. I don't know. They've got a new theory each day. The latest one, I guess, is maybe they'll rent it out and put business things in the middle, but keep the outline. [00:46:10] Speaker B: That'd be nice. [00:46:11] Speaker C: Jazz in the Stable. Yeah, it was one of the albums. [00:46:14] Speaker B: I've got one. I'm going to play this. This nice, nice lady has been calling and she missed it the first time around, and you heard it in the car. So I want to play it again for you, too. The Elks Parade. [00:46:25] Speaker C: Bobby Sherwood. [00:46:26] Speaker B: Bobby Sherwood. Yeah. This is off the air. [00:46:28] Speaker C: It's the Elk Parade. [00:46:52] Speaker B: Hold on. The old midnight blue theme is in the background there. And that means it's time for you to pack up and head on home. [00:47:00] Speaker C: Time to pack up my things, pack up my records and my valise, take them off the revolving griddle, those little cookies, tuck away all the everlastingly popular mortal hit tunes of yesteryear and today that have rightly earned their niche in the Musical hall of Fame and head out that way. Yes, sir. And I'll tell you, I once did a whole bit like that on the air. Just one cliche right after another. And my Uncle Henry, who was not too terribly smart, said to me afterwards, I heard that that was so beautiful, I almost cried. Then I didn't have the heart to say, you're a jerk. I was making fun. Anyway, he's gone now and so is everybody else, I think, including me, in a couple of minutes. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Now, would you run down your schedule on bz? Because it's every weekend. [00:47:47] Speaker C: Oh, thank you very much for asking me to do that. Yeah. Friday night, we come on at midnight. You're writing that down. Friday midnight till 5am Friday night, Friday at midnight till 5am So 5am Saturday morning. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:47:59] Speaker C: Saturday night, 11 o'. Clock. Saturday, 11am 11pm 11 11pm until 4:20 Sunday mornings. And we make way for religious programs at that time. I insisted upon it because I believe it keeps families together. There are certain family values that I believe strongly in. Newt Gingrich and I. And then Sunday night, we start at 11 o' clock and only go two hours. 11 to 1am 11 to 1am when the guy who's in during the middle of the week takes vacation, as he did about a week ago, then I go right through the whole week. But we have some interesting guests on and stuff. [00:48:38] Speaker B: They get you down in the Caribbean, too, in Mexico and All these places. [00:48:42] Speaker C: Yeah. We're in three or four uninhabited planets from what I gather. The signal is incredible. You sit in a little room and they can hear you in like, Chicago. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:48:55] Speaker C: It really is amazing. It's a great feeling of power. Anybody get any messages you want to deliver to West Virginia or something? You could use my program as kind of instructions instead of paying the toll on the phone line. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Well, listen, thanks for coming in today. It's been great having you here and [00:49:12] Speaker C: I'm so glad to be here and I wish you well. And again in my life, like in the lives of a lot of people, there'd be a void every afternoon. And I wish you good luck in your new enterprise and I hope things work out well for you. I don't know whether I wish the management all that good luck, but anyway, I wish it to you and, and your memory is, I'm starting to slobber. I think, why don't I just shut up and say thanks, it's nice to be here and good luck to you, Ron. [00:49:40] Speaker B: Thanks, old sport. Norm Nathan, who brought us this great theme sounds in the night for many, many years. And we're doing it by Frankie Cap in his ban. [00:50:07] Speaker D: Ron De La Chiesa has hosted Music America for over 18 years, and this fall he moves on to new ventures. But the music of the Great American Songbook won't be forgotten as Ron becomes the new host of Classics in the Morning. He'll also be hosting another new program, the Jazz Songbook, where you can continue to hear all the great songs of George Gershwin, Duke Ellington and many more. We'll miss him on Music America, but we hope you'll stay with us weekdays for Classics in the morning from 8 until noon, and for the Jazz Songbook every Friday evening from seven until nine. Classical, jazz, folk and news. This is 89.7 FM, WGBH, Boston. [00:51:04] Speaker B: You're just little Sinatra is always good for what ails you, no matter where you are, what you're doing, how you're feeling. Particularly in the period when he was making the Great Capital Recordings with Nelson Riddle. And that's right at the top of the list. The Songs for Swinging Lovers collection. Played some of that the other day and had a request for more of it. So always happy to oblige. Sinatra, Swinging Lovers, Nelson Riddle. Capital can't go wrong. 28 minutes before 5 o' clock the time. Ron Della Chiesa here with the Music America countdown as we celebrate 18 years of being with you here in the afternoon. And I want to mention who's coming in tomorrow. An old WGBH friend who I've known for many, many years, Chris Lydon, will be dropping by around 3 o'. Clock. Then jazz great Louis Belson, Drummer Louis Bellson on the eve of his opening for Cookin with Jazz. Louie's coming to Scullers in the Doubletree Guest suites Hotel at 400 Soldiers Field Road will be performing there Friday and Saturday night. And my wife Joyce preparing another one of her specialties, the Cooking with Jazz menu for you to enjoy. And Louie, of course, will be cooking with his group on the Bandstand. That's Friday, August 25th, and Saturday, August 26th, the great drummer Louis Bellson, cooking with jazz. WGBH members, don't forget to get your member discount. You can make reservations for the dinner in the early show or the dinner in the late show. The the number for information is 562-411. That's area code 617-562-4111. Guess what? It's finally arrived. Carol Sloan's latest CD as a tribute to one of her mentors and her great friend Carmen McCrae, with special guest Phil Woods. Here's Carol Sloan. The songs Carmen sang. [00:53:15] Speaker A: This was such a special discovery here in the Vault of Silliness. Let me remind you that if you are so inclined to hear all the great music between the segments, check out the links in the bio and the description of this episode as the complete, unedited versions are available there. Thank you just so darn much for listening, closing the Vault and leaving this world a little sillier than we found it. Four Classic Radio moments. Sounds in the night, Midnight blue, pink shoelaces. Whch WGBH Music America. Jess Kane, Frankie Cap, Bill McGrath mucking out the stalls. Payne Furniture drunk Night watchman Anita o' Day and her dog playing sax on the Longfellow Bridge at midnight. Class act Woody Herman and his grandchildren. Meatball subs, Harborfest Fish News, Two Dogs, three cats, Some chickens and a horse. Scholars the Regatta Bar. Goody Two Shoes Radio. Korva Coleman, Herb Pomeroy. Picturesque Phrases. The Stables, Mechanics hall, the Brunswick Hotel. Philosophy, the Boston Opera House. Uncle Henry Slobbering Goodbyes. Cooking with Jazz. Ron Della Chiesa. And for a change, the interviewee, the old sport himself, Norm Nathan. I'm Tony Nesbitt. [00:54:40] Speaker C: Does life get to be a blur with you after a while where you think back and you can't remember where you were when or did you really see that or did you just imagine you were there? Where reality and fantasy become all mixed up and.