Norm Nathan's Vault of Silliness with Tony Nesbitt - Ep 207

[00:00:00] For today's episode only, let me welcome you to Norm Nathan's Vault of Scariness. [00:00:08] On this, the 28th anniversary of Norm's passing. Let's not be sad, but enjoy this frightfully good Halloween themed broadcast. We have a Norm Nathan show from October 28th and 29th, 1995, the title of which shall be Found Treasures. [00:00:25] It all begins with the show open and then Norm talks about the upcoming guests. The second guest, Laurie Jacobson, author of Hollywood Haunted, A Ghostly Tour of Filmland, was not on this tape. However, we get one of my favorite annual October guests, Robert Ellis. Bob Cahill, whose latest book was New England Pirates in Lost treasures. It's his 14th or 17th or 20th book about offbeat, weird and creepy New England Part 2, if you will, of our ghostly good time. After the excellent Cahill interview, we are treated to some terrifying tales and sinister songs from an old time radio program that was broadcast on, I believe WJUL, 12:30am, which at the time was based in Lowell, Massachusetts. Its call letters are now used for a station in Hiawassee, Georgia. You will feast on one of the creepiest songs I'd never heard, the Hearse Song. Then we get two stories. Not sure of the titles, but I'm going with I Am Shadow and Me Thai Dodie Walker. Next, another Sing along, the King Kong Stomp. And we close it out with two more stories, Monsters on the Prairie and the Hunting Hour, with what I believe the title was, if the Shoe Fits. Insert asterisk here because we have an inadvertent cliffhanger. As the tape ran out, a note written on the cassette says there may be another tape with the conclusion. But in keeping with the season, it remains a mystery. Episode 207, Found Treasures, digs its way to your ears in three, two and one. Norm Nathan, he's the tog of the town. Lift you up when you're down, Norm. Nick Nathan on WBZ in Boston. [00:02:28] Here's Norm. [00:02:31] Hello. We're off on another, I think, really exciting night. I have here the program and things that we'll be. People will be talking with, things we'll be talking about. And you could just tell just by the way I rattle these papers in your ear that this looks like a really swell night. Thank you. Tonight we sort of. We sort of kick off the Halloween weekend because we got a lot of spooky stuff we're going to be talking about first. I don't know how spooky this is, but first we'll talk with Bob Cahill, who is an expert in really odd kinds of things, particularly things that happen up on the North Shore. His newest is called Pirates and Lost Treasures and we'll be discussing that with him. And then later on we'll be talking with Laurie Jacobson, who's the author of Hollywood Haunted A Ghostly Tour. Am I scaring you by the way, by the tone of my voice? A ghostly tour of Filmland. [00:03:33] And she'll be scaring up stories of celebrities who have seen ghosts, lived with ghosts and maybe are ghosts themselves or maybe whose best friends may have. May turn out to be ghosts. I don't know. Anyway, it'll be Bob Cahill. First he'll be talking about pirates and his book is called New England Pirates and Lost Treasures. Talking about the tales of New England pirate history and also talking about the New England Pirate Museum, which is a new venture of his that just opened this year in the Salem and of course Salem, Massachusetts, very big this time of the year. They are flooded with for visitors who come in to spend the Halloween week, not only the week, but it runs a few weeks there. So that's what's coming up anyway, Bob Cahill in just a couple of minutes. And I actually bought a typewriter and I didn't realize there were places that still sold them. Yeah, I think they really, you know, a couple more years and they're going to be really antiques. I think kids won't know what they are. I know what everybody says, you bought a type, what do you call that? The typewat. And you know, what about, you know, you can erase. You can re people start giving you a thing on computers. But I don't know, maybe we're just a couple of real old fashioned people. Yeah, I know. I get the feeling that I'm being left behind, don't you? Yeah, I really do. I don't even understand. [00:04:56] I was trying to think of other terms. I not only don't understand them, I can't even think what they are. But in any event, you have written these books about. [00:05:07] Is this number 17? No, this is. Oh, this is number 14 we're going to be talking about. But you've written about 20 something, I think about 20 of these books. This one, I love it. I did a lot of research early in life and still love to go out and talk to people about, you know, different things that are kind of offbeat. I know in the past. Pirates certainly are offbeat. They certainly are. And they are kind of offbeat. I have a lot of weird relatives and not one of them is a pirate. Well, I think if you dug back far enough, you know, you probably. Probably all of us would find a pirate in our ancestry somewhere. You know. You know what I think pirates are doing today? I think they exist, but in a different way. I think pirates are running the parking lots in Boston. [00:05:56] I guess so. Yeah. I shouldn't say that, because that's what I came out of, too. I know you've had a political. That was my college, too. You've had a political past, but you've tried to make up for it by becoming a legitimate writer in recent years. But every time you bring your car in and they say, that'll be $250 per hour, you kind of think of that's what happened to piracy. You in your book, you talk about the difference between pirates and privateers, and it's kind of. Kind of interesting. [00:06:25] Privateers, I guess, would be considered more legitimate than pirates or pirates. Yeah, they were legalized pirates. And, you know, it's interesting being from Salem, because this was really. Actually, it was the top privateering port in the nation back in the Revolutionary War days. And, you know, some of the fortunes that were made privateering, in other words, where the governor or some official decided that you could legally go out and steal from other ships from other countries, some of those fortunes are still around this area. [00:07:05] They made so much money that they're still living off it. Do you think some of our prominent New England families that have been in existence since Mayflower days, maybe some of the fortunes and the dignity they have came from pirates? I think most of them, yeah, most of them were privateersmen. A lot of these privateersmen became pirates, and it was a very thin line between the two and many of the fortunes, I think most of the pirates. I think if you could trace back where all these people came from, I think the majority came from New York and New England because, let's face it, in those days, you know, all the merchant seamen of a good one from America came from this area. And, you know, if you were a merchant seamer. I was. And we were making like a penny a day, and, you know, where you could go out and become a pirate, maybe if your luck was right for three years, you could retire for life. It was kind of a dangerous way to make a living, though, isn't it? Yeah, that's true, too. But so wasn't almost everything else in those days, you know, a mariner? [00:08:13] Just being a merchantman was dangerous. You were suggesting. You were suggesting in the book, too, that these privateers, since they were kind of legitimate in A sense. In that sense that they were. They were, or maybe even pirates. I forget now. You were saying they were, in a sense, kind of paying off political officials like the governor. And even Cotton Mather, who was a great religious leader, was getting a few bucks so he wouldn't turn anybody in. Yeah, well, he. In fact, then later on, he blamed, I think it was Governor Dudley, of having his finger in the pie of Jack Qualch's treasure. Jack and his boys left Marble Head and went out for exactly one year, 1703, and came back with a small fortune, and they never did find all of it. And they captured a lot of these pirates at the Isle of Shoals, and they captured a couple in Salem here, and they. But they. They never really got all of the gold. And Mather actually accused the governor of sticky fingers. So politics has not changed. [00:09:19] No. Except the religious people like Cotton Mather, you say, were involved in all of this, too. Yeah, they all were. And I think in Salem. In Salem, it happened fairly early in the 1600s. And if you follow the lives of pirates, you'll find out that there were pirate banks up and down the New England coast. And these were places that pirates could come in and they were welcomed. And they actually. They were literally banks. They could go in and they could bury their treasure without any hindrance from anyone. And they would pay off the people and the. The village or on the island to look out for their treasure, and the people would get a cut. And the Isle of Shoals at New Hampshire was definitely a pirate bank. And Blackbeard spent a lot of time out there, careened his ship there, buried treasure there. And Quelch's men, when they left Modelhead in Salem, they actually got caught by the militia burying their treasure on one of the Isles of Shoals. Goldust. Yeah, the Isle of Show, of course, off of Portsmouth. 10 miles off Portsmouth. Yeah. Portsmouth, Hampshire. They had some kind of experiment there this past year or two with a family. [00:10:31] I forget a family living there. My daughter, who works for the Portsmouth Herald, I know, spent some time out there. [00:10:39] I don't know why I'm starting to mumble on here without being aware of the full facts, but doing some kind of a story about the Isle of Shoals, which is still kind of interesting now you have been out looking for treasures. People have suggested places where the pirates may have buried their treasure. I had a fascinating experience about a year and a half ago. The Unsolved Mysteries called Arthur thought I would go out with them to the Isles because there was a woman out there who owned one of the islands and said that Blackbeard had buried his treasure on the island and that she knew exactly where it was. Now, I said, you know, if you're paying for lunch, I'll go. [00:11:26] Because, you know, there's so many stories like this of buried treasure and pirates and everything, pirate law. But the Isles is really. I knew it was a pirate bank, and I know they found a lot of stuff out there over the years. And so I went out with them. And we're rowing ashore to Lunging island, which is one of the small islands kind of off to the side. It was a flat little island, sandy, rocky coast, but it had one house on it. Has one house on it. And the woman was waiting on the rocks. And as we came rowed in from this boat, these people from Unsolved Mysteries and myself, and she said, hi, Bob Kail. And I looked up and it's a woman who lives in Salem who owns, you know, she goes out to the Isles maybe once a week and then comes back and lives in Salem. And she gave the whole story to us about how During World War II, people had gone out, officials, in fact, to try to dig up the treasure. And that her father, through the grandfather, over the years, had learned about Blackbeard having come into Lunging island, careened his ship, in other words, a good place to repair your ship and clean it all up. And that there was a cabin on the island and that Blackbeard stayed there and he buried his silver on the island, and that Captain Kidd was out after him. And so the unsolved mystery. Unsolved mystery. People looked at me and said, gee, this sounds strange. Captain Kidd was actually chasing Blackbeard. And I said, yeah, he was around the witch times just before the witch trials here in Salem in 1892. I'm sorry, what am I saying? What am I saying? 1692, actually, the Puritans from Salem and Boston hired Captain Kidd to go out and chase Blackbeard because Blackbeard was a real terror. And he, you know, when he'd come into a place, he'd come in with three or four ships. And his great ship, Queen Anne's Revenge, had 40 cannon on it. So he was a real enemy of the people. And so Kidd went out looking for Blackbeard. But Blackbeard had to bury his treasure quick and get away. So he buried it, supposedly on Lunging Island. And this had gone down through the history of the island, through the descendants of this family who lives in Salem. I'm not going to give that name or she'd probably be bothered with phone calls. But it was fascinating to me that they had owned the island. And Unsolved Mysteries is coming back, hopefully this coming summer, I guess to see if they can dig out this treasure that Blackbeard supposedly buried there in the early 1600s. Do you think that there are, there is some treasure buried in various places around here that have the treasures that have not been dug up? Oh yeah, I think a lot of it and I think a lot more is going to be found now because you know, they've sophisticated these machines, you know, metal detectors and other machinery that now, you know, they can probe into the sea and into land deeper. And I think a lot of these treasures that have been buried over the years, over the centuries are going to be found pretty easily from now on. And yeah, I think it's all out there because again, I think these were New York and New England guys who were really the true pirates of the Caribbean. And like everybody else today, you know, they'd spend their winters in Florida and the Bahamas stealing from, usually from the Spaniards. And then they'd come up here for the summer and would do the same thing, only they'd brought merchant ships. But I think when they were ready to retire, they'd bury their little pots of gold here so that they could easily, when they wanted a couple of bucks from the so called bank, they just roll out to the island or whatever it is and dig it up. And a lot of them, of course, as you said, it was a dangerous business. So a lot of them never were able to get back to dig up their treasures. What a frustrating moment that must have been when they realized they couldn't get back to dig up all this swell stuff they put away for a rainy day. There was a guy, a fellow from Springfield named Tom Hubbell who went down to Cayman island and many, many years ago as a young man with a metal detector and an aqualung and he. [00:15:42] Well, I went down to visit him and saw the treasures that he found. It was unbelievable. Just, just little pots here and there in and around the fortifications at Cayman Island. And you know, he made a small fortune. Unfortunately I just found out recently he died. He was a bush pilot as well in this plane crash. But he had dug up quite a few treasures. And again, I think there's a lot of it, A lot of it gets dug up. Norman. Nobody says anything, you know what I'm saying? Oh, so we don't know that they dug it up then because they don't Make a public announcement. Yeah. Today I have dug up a small treasure. Nobody. Nobody holds a news conference for that. No. Because then you have relatives that you never dreamed you had, you know. Would you have to pay taxes on something like that? Oh, sure. Well, same thing. You know our famous wreck off Cape Cod there, the pirate ship, Wider, you know, with hundreds of. Thousands of. Hundreds of millions of dollars on it they've brought up. And I've, you know, it's an estimate. Nobody knows for sure, but it's gotta be certainly in the middles and the millions. 30 million probably, and it's probably a hell of a lot more down there because they have not found the mother lode out there yet. And it's only about 200 yards offshore and about 20ft underwater, you know, so it's out there. And they've been finding coins on that beach, Marconi beach, for hundreds of years. Nobody ever said anything. People with, you know, Cape Carters who live around there. But how would you. How would you know, how would you hide that? Because we're not talking, you know, digging up dollar bills or anything or nickels and dimes. We're talking ancient, you know, old coins from different countries and all of that. You know, they go down with little pails and buckets after a storm and fill them up and go home with it. Yeah, you can. There's places you can go to trade off that stuff. You. You know, it's funny, I got a call, I don't know, a few years ago now. I think back about. Somebody said that these pine tree shillings were coming into America and all the coin dealers were wondering who it was that was bringing them all down. They were coming out of Canada and they had found a sunken ship up there full of pine tree shillings, you know, so no matter how obscure the coins may be that you find, somebody will turn, will take those and give you a dollar bill for them. Just one. One of the many coins that have been found on the wreck of the Widow. [00:18:17] We still don't know how to pronounce that. But anyway, the wider it's supposed to be was worth $30,000. Just one coin. And, you know, there's thousands of coins been found. And, you know, if you get a coin that's in good shape and especially if there's a date on it, boy, you know, and if it's. Sometimes it's like one of the coins they had that I saw, in fact, I was able to found it on the. On the. On the widow was 1692 Spanish silver piece, you know, Lovely. You know, that was the year of the witch trials in Salem, so. Worth a lot of dough. [00:18:55] We want to just take a little break. We're talking with Bob Cahill, who's written a whole lot of books on a number of fascinating subjects. The one that we're talking about now is called New England's Pirates and Lost Treasures is in St. Louis, and Lynn is second. That is owned by a city. I thought that was fascinating, but there's a lot of stuff you've got in your book about Lynn woods that I did not know about, even though I'd heard about some of the areas. Yeah, I like. Is it Dungeon Cove and all? Anyway, Dungeon Rock. Yeah, Dungeon Rock. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about that in just a minute. And you. You write well, and it's fun to read your stuff. Anyway, we're talking about Lynn Woods. One. One question. You talked about a family, a marble family. Oh, yeah. Is that how Marblehead got its name? No, no, no, no. But supposedly they lived in Marblehead for a while, which I think was kind of interesting. [00:19:51] They. In the 1800s, mid-1800s, I think it was a period from about 1840 to 1880, something. They actually dug a tunnel into Dungeon Rock, which is a. I don't know. You've been up there. A very rocky area that supposedly at one time held a cave that a pirate by the name of Veal was buried in with his treasure in the. In an earthquake in the 1600s. Mid-1600s. I'm sorry, again, we're talking about Lynn woods now. Yeah. Okay. So this. So these marble boys, you know, got wind of the story of the pirate being buried with his treasure in the. In the cave and started digging. And they dug for 40, 50 years, the two father and son, constantly, every day and dug. And you still go in and go through the tunnel. Have you ever been down there to the tunnel? No, I've been by the outside of that. I don't know why I never got to that side of Lynnwoods, which is sort of toward the soggish side. Yeah. Fascinating, because, you know, you can go through this tunnel that these fellows spent their entire lives digging for the treasure and, of course, never found it. And it's fascinating when you go in there because the tunnel curves. So it's like, you know, one day they went in there and said, you know, dad, maybe we should go a little bit to the left. So we went off for about 20, 30, 40ft to the left. And then somebody, you know, then they said, well, maybe we should go to the Right. So it's all through, you know, just through rock. And it must have been a tough, terrible job. But there is record of Veal and some of his compatriots coming into up the Saugus river in about 1657, I think was the date. And, you know, the old Saugus Ironworks has been. Was on that river in 1642. You can still go visit that. Yeah, that's the oldest. The oldest or the very first iron works in the country. Yeah, yeah. And the pirates were trading pieces of eight for various pieces of iron hoes and things to start a little community. And then the British Marines got the clue that they were back in a place that they still call pirates Glen, and came in and captured all but this guy Veal, who escaped to Dungeon Rock and hid in the cave. And then a year later, I think it was 1658 with the big earthquake and buried in there. But see, a lot of fact and legend are mixed into that story. So even I think the Marvel Brothers were talking to spiritualists about, you know, the great treasure that was in there. And I think that that's what grabbed them and brought them in there to spend their lives digging. [00:22:31] There were pirates in there at one time. Pirates in Lynn Woods? Yeah. Isn't that interesting? I had not known that. I told you before that I lived in a third floor walk up when we were first married. And the landlord, his father especially used to go after my dog with a knife. He might be. He would have been a pirate. Maybe he was an ancestor for pirate. He sort of acted like, weird. Anyway, so I take the dog. I take the dog to Lynn woods, which I just discovered, and it was fun. Especially in wintertime. I walk around through the snow, and if you've never been anywhere and you've never seen it mapped out, it's like you're the first person ever to go through there and you're making discoveries. Oh, yeah. And there are two hills there. One had a stone tower and the other supposedly, that's a pirate tower. [00:23:22] It's been there for a long time where they go up as a lookout for pirate ships. [00:23:28] Oh, is that what that was for? Yeah, yeah. And there were about three ponds in there. I guess that's the water supply for that area now. And on the other. And when we climbed to the top of that hill, looked across, there's another hill and that had like, you know, a firefighters lookout tower, which I think has since burned down. [00:23:47] But then we walked around a little more and that's when we saw some of the places, well, like Dungeon Rock that you've been talking about. And it's fascinating to explore that. I know the Sierra Club has been doing work there trying to clean the thing up because a lot of people go there after dark and smash bottles. And it's a shame because it's a beautiful area. They have a group now, I think it's called Citizens for Lynn Woods. There's a friend of mine, Paul Bruce, who's a member of it, and they have their own little newspaper and everything else now that they kind of care for the woods. In fact, way back when I was in politics, they wanted. That's where they wanted to come through from Route 128, I guess it was from Route 1, come through the marshland and through the Lynn Woods. And the people of Lynn put up such a protest that. [00:24:35] That they never did build the road through. You can still see if you go on the. Was it the Lin Wag. And still see where they were coming already starting to build across the marsh with a highway to come all the way to Salem and Beverly. And the people from Lynn stopped it just to save Lynn woods and Dungeon Rock and the legend of the pirates. Oh, good. I'm awfully glad they did that. Now you have a pirate museum. This is something brand new for you. Yeah. I just felt that the story of pirates, especially since they were real active in 1691, 92, when the witches. When all the witch hysteria happened here in Salem. And I thought they were kind of getting a bad shake, you know, nobody knew what they had done and who was active, especially, you know, Kid and Blackbeard in this area and many others, a lot of local boys that had made good in the pirate world. So I thought it would be great to do a museum. And I had artifacts and I knew people who had artifacts to display as well on pirates and have it a historical adventure for not just kids, but adults as well. [00:25:41] And also have some fun. Because we've got. In there, we've got a huge pirate ship, believe it or not, in the museum. We've got a village in which one of the buildings. Because we didn't know exactly what it looked like, but there was an old cavern called the Blue Anchor Tavern, which was also in Lynn, which was very active during pirate times. In fact, it was a place that these pirates that we were just talking from Dungeon Rock used to go down and spend some time at right on the marsh road. And it was a place that jailers, when they were going to Boston with prisoners, would stop and spend the night. And it was a place, in fact, where pirates. [00:26:23] Quelch was captured with some of his men after he brought in, you know, took some of these Portuguese ships and came back into Marble Head and he got captured there with a couple of his men back in 1703. So it was a. So what we did is put a redid the cavern and we have that in the Pirate museum as well. Plus an 80 foot cave in there as well. So we've had a lot of fun and it's historically accurate as best we can do. And it's a great history that kids can learn. Plus, have some fun of pirate days right here in New England. And it's right across from Pickering Wharf. Yeah, right across from Pickering Wharf. And gee, I'll tell you, that area down there is active now. In fact, besides our museum, there's been two other museums or, you know, places to visit have propped up in. One is Myths and Monsters and the Witch Village. And Salem's really becoming quite a town for activities over Halloween especially. And now, besides, see, we got the Witch Museum, the Witch Dungeon, the Witch House, the Peabody Museum, the Essex Museum and our new Pirate Museum and these other places. It really gives the people come in for the whole weekend and. And they really enjoy themselves over Halloween. We started the 13th of October with a big parade and the party's still going on. Yes, it's kind of interesting because the city is kind of, in a sense, kind of paranoid about this because they feel that it brings a lot of people in and it's great for the economy. And certainly it gives the city of Salem a certain kind of image and a stamp. But the image is not what a lot of people are too happy about when they talk in terms of witches, which they realized was not the most democratic era in the history of the United States. You know, that that dilemma has been going on since witch times. [00:28:23] I think one time, I think I had mentioned to you that it found that there had not been a felony after the witch History of 1692 for 77 years in Essex County. We're not just talking Salem. I was talking all of Essex County, 34 villages and towns. [00:28:41] And you know what that meant. It meant that, sure, a lot of people were causing crime and a lot of people. There were felonies, of course, but they weren't recorded. And they. And people were not being brought to justice because of the feelings of the people in Salem. They didn't want to bring them into the courts because they felt guilty. [00:29:02] That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's gone on. Growing up in Salem as a kid in the. In the 1950s. In fact, when they uncovered the witch dungeon, when they were building the old telephone building in the 1950s, people didn't know what to do with the artifacts they found. You know, when I finally traced down some of the beams and other artifacts that were found, they were over in Marble Head. And a good old friend of mine who was a great carpenter, he just died recently, had used them as landfill. Because at first everybody was all excited about him doing something with these beams and creating something for the city of Salem. And then they found that there were so many people opposed to doing this that nobody ever got back to him. So he just used the beams as landfill over in his yard and Marble Head. So they were some, you know, very important artifacts from the original witch dungeon in Salem that just got lost. And of course, when we talk the witch trials and all that, it was part of Salem village, of which, even part of the town I live in, Middleton. Yeah. [00:30:10] Peabody 2, which was part of that Salem boat. [00:30:14] So it covers a big area. Yeah, Salem covered a great area. Yeah. Was that now, was that second only to Boston in development along this. [00:30:26] Well, you know, at one time, Marble Head was bigger than Boston. Really? I believe that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think each village and town grew according to what was happening. Now, one of the things that stymied Salem's growth, the town of Salem's growth, was that the harbor was too shallow. And when we got the clever ship times, you know, that this area is so famous for Salem's port harbor, just could not take the big clipper ships, but Boston's could. And Boston kind of, you know, took off from there. So at one time, Salem certainly was bigger than Boston. And then Boston went ahead of her. But I don't think, you know, with the difference we have today, I don't think it was that much in those days. I think they were pretty fairly equal all the way along. [00:31:21] Yeah. There's a new movie out. Have you heard about this call? It's called A Scarlet Letter. Of course, obviously based on Nathaniel Hawthorne. I heard it was. They took a lot of license, though. A lot of license and a lot of people. They quote K. David Goss. I know you know him. Oh, yeah, sure. The director of the House of Seven Gables. Great guy. [00:31:41] He says he's seen the film twice and enjoyed it. But he has a small problem with it. He said, because they've taken those licenses that you're talking about, Bob, they should have changed the title he said changed the title. Sure. I mean, you shouldn't be able to take a title of, you know, of some great classic and use that name and then change the whole thing around. I mean, interpretation is one thing, but changing the story is another, I think. Yeah. The Goss said they could have called it something like the Red Hot Letter or something. [00:32:13] Almost anything at all. Now you're making me want to see it. Yeah, no, I would like to see. Well, it's got Demi Moore. She can't. Because it can't be all bad. No, that's. And apparently they have some nudie scenes in it, which is kind of. Hawthorne is rolling over in his grave. I know. And I'm perking up your interest by the second, aren't I? Big fellow. He was kind of a quiet guy, you know, he was kind of prudish, maybe. No, I guess everything a few years ago was. Yeah. Today he would have been featured on one of those trashy talk shows that everybody's been screaming about. We're talking with Bob Cahill, the newest book. Not the newest, but one of his books is called New England's Pirates and Lost Treasures. And there are a lot of other things I want to talk with you about in just a couple of the address now, if you're interested in contacting them for books with interesting titles like New England's Mad and Mysterious Men, New England's Marvelous Monsters and Ghostly Haunts, and On and on like that. Fascinating series by a man who's done a lot of research on all this. [00:33:18] His literary name is Robert Ellis Cahill and we know as Bob Cahill. It's the Chandler Smith, hyphenated name. Chandler Smith Publishing House Incorporated. Post Office Box 469, Peabody, MA. 0, 1960. If, you know, if I ran through that too quickly, you didn't get it, send me a note and I'll be happy to send you the address. [00:33:43] I wanted to talk about ghosts and all that stuff in the next few minutes, Bob, but your last paragraph in this book on pirates and lost treasures and said you talk about seeing that fizzled, crazy look in people's eyes when they see pirate treasure and hunting for it, you say, can be as addictive as drugs and so on. And you had you mentioned a friend of yours who lost a whole lot of things just because he. He apparently spent full time looking for treasures. Yeah, I think that that can happen to a lot of guys. [00:34:23] I've always gone out looking for treasure and had a lot of fun looking. And every time we've gone Out. I've always taken a couple of kids along and I've bumped into some of these kids who are now grown up. And they said one of the great adventures in our lives was just going out with you fellows seriously, but not too seriously hunting treasure. I mean, we'd go off for a weekend or whatever to the Isle of Shoals or. Or scuba diving or. Winthrop is another place where, you know, if you can get out onto the peninsula there, there's a lot of good treasure hunting out there. A lot of stuff's been found out there, too, on Deer Island. But anyway, the. This fellow you're talking about. Yeah. When scuba diving first started in, which is only in the 1950s, early 50s, everybody who learned how to scuba dive, and there weren't that many that did in those days, figured, oh, gee, we're going to go down and we're going to find all this sunken booty. And Jay were going to become rich. And this one fellow, lovely guy, he just. It was almost like he should have joined Gamblers Anonymous and he, you know, Treasure Hunters Anonymous, because he just went. He lost everything. I mean, he just had a nice little business and lost that. Lost his wife. Only because he became so obsessed with going out and looking for treasure underwater. And he never did find anything. And even, you know, myself, I've gone for years and years and years and years scuba diving for treasure and, you know, pinpointing spots and everything. And, you know, I've got a few old bottles and a couple of belt buckles. [00:35:54] This guy, Barry Clifford, in fact, Barry Clifford, the guy who found the winner, I have a wonderful photo with him on a beach with all his treasure put into a nice big treasure chest. And he says, you know, thanks, Bob, for all your help. [00:36:08] You know, he read my stories, went out and found, you know, millions of dollars from the wreck of the Widow. [00:36:16] But, you know, that's part of the game. I went out, searched and searched and searched, didn't find anything. And he went out and he. He happened to find an old map that had an X on it, believe it or not, and really just went where the X was. And sure enough, there was. There was the remains of the widow. Now, you. Last time we talked about ghosts and stuff, and people in the past have tipped you off to where they've heard strange, as we say, things that go bump in the night. And you've investigated these kind of things. You're obviously a very brave person either then. No, I'm not. I'm really a chicken. No, no, I'm not. Brave at all. [00:36:53] No. I've had some people call, in fact, with ghosts that are, you know, so please come to my house as my business, because I've got this ghost, and I always ask, well, what. You know, what's he doing and what's happening? Why do you feel this? And if they tell me a story that's frightening, I won't go. [00:37:08] I won't. I'll put on to somebody else. Yeah, you didn't say that the last time. I thought you went everywhere. [00:37:14] Yeah, I mean, I'll go so far. [00:37:18] You know, not that I'm looking for nice ghosts, but some of them are really terrifying. Jeez. I mean, they just. And I had a little thing happening up in Nova Scotia that really kind of scared me. And I said, oh, I don't want these poltergeists, you know, start throwing things around and stuff like that. I don't want to deal with them. I don't mind dealing with, you know, something up in the attic that might scare you. You know, that's just there, and you can see it. It's interesting because the way you're talking, you figure there are these poltergeists, there are ghosts. I think there's no doubt about it. Sure. Oh, sure. Now, why do you say that? Well, because, you know, I do get these calls, and there are so many examples. In fact, they've had even now, TV shows on these things and show them, you know, the things flying around the rooms. And, you know, people say some of the. In fact, some of the witches who live in Salem say, oh, don't worry about that. They're just being playful. Well, baloney. [00:38:20] I don't want anything that playful in my house. [00:38:24] But I, you know, even down right by Miller's Wharf, which I think I mentioned to you before, right near the house, Seven Gables, where a ghost actually told me to get out of there and, you know, told me twice to get out. This old barge had been sunk in Salem harbor, and in the turn of the century, they brought it up and made a second floor of this old building that's on the wasp. And it's like going into a ship, you know. And I was telling the story at a talk one night, and this woman came and said, you know, my husband had the same experience, and he was a surveyor, and he was surveying for this building before I had my experience. He was down on the wharf with his friend, actually surveying the wharf, and he heard the same voice. You know, it said, get out of here. And it was like it came from another world. It, you know, you knew that it wasn't, you know, some neighbor shouting out a window, but nobody was there. And he said the same thing happened to him. They heard it twice, and they finally picked up their gear and they left. And they went back to the office, and the boss said, you know, what are you guys doing here? And they said, well, the guy who lives in this house on Miller's Wharf told us to get out. And I said, nobody lives in that house. Nobody's ever lived in that house. It's just a vacant old house. [00:39:39] So, you know, how do you figure those things? And, you know, I did exactly what the voice told me. I got out of there. [00:39:47] I have no intention of going back there either. Can you imitate the sound of that voice? Well, it was deep and hollow, was like, get out of here. Okay, I want to see if I can duplicate. I'm talking to Ed Leclerc, who's our producer. Can you put. Put us on reverberation? [00:40:05] Can you do that? [00:40:08] Ed is kind of new here, and I'm not sure he can, but that's that echoey sound. I thought if he could do that. Yeah, that would be it. Yeah, we could. We could. Perhaps we could duplicate the sound of the ghost. Now, if I. In fact, I saw the owner of Miller's. [00:40:23] Did he get it? Oh, there you. There you go. Yeah. Okay, we're going to put you on the. On reverberation. You're going to say it, or am I going to? No. Why don't you. Will you say it? Because you're the guy who heard it. I heard it. Okay, go ahead. [00:40:35] Get out of there. [00:40:39] Okay. Right out over the water. I gotta go right out. Was that. Was that the whole thing? Just get out of there. Just a few words, but he said it twice. Yeah, and I was in this little. It was like a pilot house, which is on the second floor. And I knew that, you know, the windows are closed and nobody's around except my friend. And at first I thought it was my friend Mike Purcell, kidding around who was showing me this place. And then I saw him way down the other end of the car, so I knew it wasn't him. And I just. You know, I just went right down and past him and down the stairs, and he said, where you going? I said, I think he was going to make a restaurant out of this place. I said, I think your place is haunted. [00:41:17] But then when this gal told me about her husband, the surveyor, I said, oh, gee, that made me feel better, you know, because sometimes when you go through an experience like that, you say, gee, I'm sure what happened to me was real, but you know, you know, I just can't, you know, it's so unreal that you can't. It's hard to explain it. But then when it happens to somebody else, you say, gee, okay, that's. You kind of get a backup, a second opinion. He has like a second opinion. But I still don't understand why nobody's ever used that building either. That's another good question. I mean, it just sort of sits there vacant, especially the second floor, which is, you know, it's got hatches and it's got a pilot house and it's really beautiful. And this is. Is this also on Derby Street? Yeah, well, yeah, it's down further. It's off. I think it's White street, which is a little short street off Derby. And of course goes right to the water. You can see the house, seven gables from this shack, you know, and it really is like a shack. Well, it's a two story building, but it looks like a shack. Yeah, I was trying to think of what. What kind of a ghostly name could you give a restaurant that was in that kind of a place? Yes, I know it. And you know, I tried to track it down too. I talked to Miller, the guy who actually had taken this barge, sunken barge, out of the harbor. I talked to his daughter, who was still alive, living in Danvers in fact, and she said, you know, she remembered them doing it. But she. I said, well, did somebody drown on this badge or, you know, she said, no. She said, I don't think so. She said, I just can't. She was just a little girl. She couldn't remember the whole thing, but she knew that, you know, they had taken the barge and made a second story out of this house, you know, which sits on the wall. That's kind of interesting because when you say you believe in ghosts, I would tend to take that seriously because you're a very sensible. [00:43:11] I take it seriously. Oh, I think there's something there. There's no two ways about it. But I mean, I still think it's interesting and I think it's kind of funny. But I mean, it's. [00:43:22] Yeah, I mean, I take it seriously. I think I had, which I mentioned to you before, I think on the year, my experience with a ghost when I was like 21 years old, who turned out to more than likely be my grandmother. And, you know, that was very real to me. And that wasn't like a quick flash. I Mean, she was. She stuck around for a while. I was so scared. I opened my mouth and nothing came out. [00:43:45] I mean, so, you know, I'm not a ghostbuster. I enjoy going out, and I do go out with these fellows who are real ghostbusters. There's a fellow out of Newburyport who's. Who's wonderful. [00:43:55] In one of my books, I call him Brian the Monk because he's also kind of shy, but he lives up in Newburyport and he's very serious. He brings holy water with him and he brings relics. And he said he's very serious. And he. He feels that all ghosts are evil. And I find that hard to swallow because, again, you know, the ghost that visited me, the old lady, was supposedly my grandmother, and she certainly wasn't evil. And I've heard and talked to many people who have seen ghosts that surely weren't evil. So, you know, I just think it's a fascinating subject, and we haven't really learned too much more about ghosts since the beginning of time. You know, they talk about ghosts from the Bible, and we really haven't learned that much more about them since then. Are you working on some new stuff? You're always working on something, aren't you? Yeah. My problem now is deciding what to write. Over the years, I collect and collect and I interview people and everything. And then it's, you know, the fun part is, what are you going to do next? And sometimes, though, it becomes a dilemma, you know, what to write about next. [00:45:03] I got a lot of things floating around. In fact, I'm thinking, seriously, maybe doing a fiction about kind of a ghostly fiction. [00:45:13] I don't know if it'll. I don't know if my fiction will sell, but you get a shot. Well, your stuff is fascinating stuff, and you're an interesting guy, Bob. I don't know many guys would sit around and talk about sunken treasures and the ghosts and all. You really are. You have a very nice outlook on life and a very great curiosity, and I really admire that curiosity. I think there's so many fascinating. You know what's interesting? There's so many fascinating worlds out there, and that's why I kind of get stuck into all of them and kind of, you know, I really can't dig that far into each little world, but there's so many fascinating, different things going on. When people tell me they're bored, I go, how can you be bored when you've got, you know, like one great group that I joined a few years ago, and in fact, I did a book on them too, because it was the Early Sites Research Society out of Rowley, which deal with everything that's been discovered in especially New England prior that dates back prior to Columbus. It's fascinating. We're gonna have to talk about that next time because we're up to the hour. And thanks a lot for coming out with me, Bob. Thank you. You're always a pleasure to talk with and I appreciate that. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween to you too, Bob. Bye bye. [00:47:32] The Hearse Song don't you ever laugh as the hearse goes by for you may be the next to die they wrap you up in a big white sheet from your head down to your feet. They put you in a big black box and cover you up with dirt and rocks. All goes well for about a week. Then your coffin begins to leak. The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out. The worms play Pinocchle on your snout. They eat your eyes, they eat your nose. They eat the jelly between your toes. A big green worm with rolling eyes crawls in your stomach and out your eyes. Your stomach turns a slimy green and pus pours out like whipping cream. You spread it on a slice of bread and that's what you eat when you are dead. [00:48:48] Now that's what I call music. [00:48:51] Welcome back. We're into the final hour of tonight's Old Time Radio Theater, our Sunday Before Halloween annual special, our 21st gathering together. [00:49:08] Right now, it's time for some more stories to help keep us in the Halloween spirits. [00:49:30] Ye who read are still among the living. [00:49:33] But I who write shall have long since gone my way into the region of shadows. [00:49:40] For indeed, strange things shall happen and secret things be known, and many centuries shall pass away ere these memorials be seen of men. [00:49:50] And when seen, there will be some to disbelieve and some to doubt, and yet a few who will find much to ponder upon in the characters here graven with a stylus of iron. [00:50:05] The year had been a year of terror, and of feelings more intense than terror, for which there is no name. Twas not unknown that the heavens were an aspect of ill. [00:50:16] And to me, the Greek Oinus, among others, it was evident that now had arrived the alternation of that 794th year, when, at the entrance of Aries, the planet Jupiter is conjoined with the red ring of the terrible Saturnus. [00:50:34] The peculiar spirit of the skies, if I mistake not, greatly made itself manifest not only in the physical orb of the earth, but in the souls, imaginations and meditations of mankind. [00:50:51] Over some flasks of the red key and wine. Within the walls of a noble hall in a dim city called Ptolemais, we sat at night a company of seven, and to our chamber there was no entrance, save a lofty door of brass, and the door was fashioned by the artisan Corinus, and, being of rare workmanship, was fastened from within black draperies, likewise, in the gloomy room, shut out from our view the moon, the lurid stars, the peopleless streets, but the boding and the memory of evil, they would not be so excluded. [00:51:33] There were things around us and about us of which I can render no distinct account. Things material and spiritual. Heaviness in the atmosphere, a sense of suffocation, anxiety. [00:51:47] And above all, that terrible state of existence which the nervous experience. When the senses are keenly living and awake, and meanwhile the powers of thought lie dormant. [00:52:00] A dead weight hung upon us. It hung upon our limbs, upon the household furniture, upon the goblets from which we drank. And all things were depressed and borne down thereby. All things, save only the flames of the seven iron lamps which illumined our revel, uprearing themselves in tall, slender lines of light. They thus remained, burning all pallid and motionless. [00:52:29] And in the mirror which their lustre formed upon the round table of ebony at which we sat, each of us there assembled beheld the pallor of his own countenance and the unquiet glare in the downcast eyes of his companions. [00:52:46] Yet we laughed and were merry in our proper way, which is hysterical, and sang the songs of Anacreon, which are madness, and drank deeply, although the purple wine reminded us of blood. [00:53:04] For there was yet another tenant of our chamber in the person of young Zoilus, dead, and at full length he lay enshrouded the genius and the demon of the scene. [00:53:17] Alas, he bore no portion in our mirth, save that his countenance distorted with the plague and his eyes, in which death had but half extinguished the fire of the pestilence, seem to take such interest in our merriment as the dead may haply take in the merriment of those who are to die. [00:53:37] But although I, Oinos, felt that the eyes of the departed were upon me, still I forced myself not to perceive the bitterness of their expression, and, gazing down steadily into the depths of the ebony mirror, sang with a loud and sonorous voice the songs of the but gradually my songs they ceased, and their echoes, rolling afar off among the sable draperies of the chamber, became weak and indistinguishable, and so faded away. [00:54:09] And lo, from among those sable draperies where the sounds of the song departed, there came forth a dark and undefined shadow. [00:54:19] A shadow such as the moon, when low in heaven, might fashion from the figure of a man. But it was the shadow neither of man, nor of God, nor of any familiar thing. [00:54:30] And quivering a while among the draperies of the room, it at length rested in full view upon the surface of the door of brass. [00:54:38] But the shadow was vague and formless and indefinite, and was the shadow neither of man nor God, neither God of Greece, nor God of Chaldea, nor any Egyptian God. [00:54:53] And the shadow rested upon the brazen doorway and under the arch of the entablature of the door, and moved not nor spoke any word. But there became stationary and remained. [00:55:06] And the door whereupon the shadow rested, was, if I remember, aright over against the feet of young Zoilus enshrouded. [00:55:15] But we, the seven there assembled, having seen the shadow as it came out from among the draperies, dared not steadily behold it, but cast down our eyes and gazed continually into the depths of the ebony mirror. And at length I, Oinos, speaking some low words, demanded of the shadow its dwelling and its appellation. [00:55:37] And the shadow answered, I am Shadow, and my dwelling is near the catacombs of Ptolemy, and hard by those dim plains of hellusion which border upon the foul Caronian canal. [00:55:56] And then did we, the seven, start from our seats in horror and stand trembling and shuddering and aghast. [00:56:05] For the tones of the voice of the shadow are not the tones of any one being, but of a multitude of beings. And varying in their cadences from syllable to syllable, fell dusky upon our ears in the well remembered and familiar accents of many thousand departed friends. [00:56:30] Itaidoti Walker There was a haunted house where every night a bloody head fell down the chimney. At least that's what people said. So nobody would stay there overnight. [00:56:47] Then a rich man offered $200 to whoever would do it. And this boy said he would try if he could have his dog with him. So it was all settled. The very next night the boy went to the house with his dog. To make it more cheerful, he started a fire in the fireplace. Then he sat in front of the fire and waited. And his dog waited with him. For a while. Nothing happened. But a little after midnight he heard someone singing softly and sadly off in the woods. The singing sounded something like this. [00:57:27] Meet I do dee walk. [00:57:33] It's just somebody singing, the boy told himself, but he was frightened. [00:57:40] Then his dog answered the song softly and sadly. It sang Linchi Kinchi, Collie, molly Dingo, Dingo. [00:57:56] The boy could not believe his ears. His dog had never uttered a word before. [00:58:02] Then, a few minutes later, he heard the singing again. Now it was closer and louder, but the words were the same. [00:58:12] Meet I Dody Walker. [00:58:17] This time the boy tried to stop his dog from answering. He was afraid that whoever was singing would hear it and come after them. But his dog paid no attention. And again it sang. Lynchy Kinshy, Collie, Molly Dingo Dingo. [00:58:38] A half hour later, the boy heard the singing again. Now it was in the backyard, and the song was the same. Me Thai Dodie Walker. [00:58:51] Again the boy tried to keep his dog quiet, but the dog sang louder than ever. Lynchy Kinchy, Collie, molly Dingo, Dingo. [00:59:04] Soon the boy heard the singing again. Now it was coming down the chimney. Meet I Dody Walker. The dog sang right back. Lynchy Kinchy call. [00:59:18] Dingle. Dingle. Suddenly a bloody head fell out of the chimney. It missed the fire and landed right next to the dog. The dog took one look and fell over dead from fright. The head turned and stared at the boy. Slowly it opened its mouth. [00:59:56] Deep in the African jungle, behind the giant wall, there lives a huge gorilla. The most monstrous monster of all. His name is Kong and they call him King. You can tell why in the glance and everything starts jumping. Then he goes into his dance. [01:00:13] Oh, it's the King Kong Stomp. There's no escape. Yes, it's the King Kong Stomp. He just goes in. And the jungle shakes with a mighty sound. When King Kong starts to monkey around. [01:00:36] All the natives worship him. He's their very favorite beast and he's always guest of honor when they have a special feast. Then the jungle drums begin to play a beat they know he'll dig. And Giant Kong puts on a show that's really, really big. [01:00:53] Oh, it's the King Kong stumps. There's no escape. This is the king comes down. He just goes in. And the jungle shakes with a mighty song When King Kong starts to monkey around. [01:01:37] Don't you threaten me, son. You got a lot of gold. [01:01:41] We want to do things my way. [01:01:51] You don't know what to do. [01:01:53] You got no idea. [01:01:55] You don't know what to forgive when you forget. [01:02:00] You don't know what you know how. [01:02:05] You don't know what you're messing with. But I'm going to tell you. [01:02:19] I just a mean green mother from out our face. And it looks like you behave. I'm just a mean green mother from out our face And I am wanna save your skin, boy? You wanna save your hide? You wanna see tomorrow you better step aside better take a pit boy or some good advice you better take it easy cause you're walking open eyes. You don't know what you're dealing with. No, you never did. [01:03:08] You don't know what to the beginning but let's talk today. [01:03:12] The lion don't speak tonight. And if you pull his hair, he roars. You see that ain't fair. You see that ain't I know what I say of yours yeah, text me now I'm just a mean green brother from outer space. And out there I'm just a mean green brother. A real this place that you got me fighting B I'm just a mean green brother from out of space going to pass your ass. Going to rock this place. I'm clean and bleed and I am mad. [01:03:49] Don't you talk to me about four kings. Don't you think he's the worst? Girl, you think it wrong. Don't talk to me about Frankenstein. He got a p, he ain't got mine. [01:04:08] You know I don't come from no black lagoon. I from past the stars and beyond the moon. You can keep the bang, keep the game, keep the teacher man don't be I got garden style make the moves. I got the stuff and I think that rules you better move it out. Nature calls. You got the point. I'm going to bust you monsters on the prairie. [01:06:17] The Duke, Miss. You look like strange countryside to me. Where do you reckon we are? Away. I figure we're somewhere in the Carpathian mountains of Transylvania. Transylvania? [01:06:31] Well, how in tarnation do we get so far off the Oregon trail? [01:06:37] The stagecoach carrying Mr. Renfield, real estate broker from London, passes swiftly by. Where you headed, bub? I'm going to Copeland. [01:06:50] Hey, Duke, did you see what I saw? [01:06:54] There were no driver of that stagecoach. Not only that, Gabby, did you see that mangy bat flying in the driver's seat? You God too native. An old stagecoach sure took off in a hurry. Must be some kind of Halloween party going on up at Castle Dracula. What do you say we catch up to the stage and see what the story is? [01:07:19] Sounds good to me, Duke. Maybe we can crash that Halloween party. [01:07:29] There's the stagecoach in front of the castle, Gabby. What do you make of it? Well, it sure don't look like Wills Fargo now, does it? You're right, cookie. Let's get up near the door and take a gander. Leave the horses here. [01:07:44] Take it easy, boys. Oh, Gabby's gonna Leave each of you a box of Quaker Roach and Quaker Buckwheat. [01:07:53] This door's open. Let's go inside. [01:07:57] Well, this place is huge, Duke. I wonder what it costs to heat this dump. Well, let's stay in the shadows where we can keep an eye on the tin horn that was on the stage. [01:08:10] Hey, there's a rangy dude in a black cape appearing on the stairway, Duke. Looks like he's gonna talk to the tinhorn. I bid you welcome. [01:08:23] I am black. [01:08:28] Did you hear Count Dracula. The famous vampire. Well, you're right, Gabby. Children of the night. [01:08:39] What music they made. [01:08:43] I trust you have kept your coming here a secret. I followed your instructions implicitly. [01:09:00] This is very old wine. [01:09:08] It's delicious. Aren't you drinking? No, thank. [01:09:14] I never drink. [01:09:17] Why? Well, I do. Hey, Duke, give me a hit of that Thunderbird you've been toting in your back pocket since Albuquerque. [01:09:27] Okay, Gabby. You know, legend has it that Dracula can assume the form of a bat, a wolf or a vaporous mist. Well, that makes him a triple threat. Man, this party must be a starting. Here comes a hunchback dwarf with his keeper eagle. [01:09:46] You mean Boris Karloff here, too? I'm getting a gee something fierce. [01:09:54] Let's vamoose right now, Duke. Hold on to your britches, you old desert rat. I want to get to the bottom of whatever these atheistic weirdos are up to. [01:10:06] Franklin, Count Dracula. We made an agreement. [01:10:11] I was supposed to get your girls Tuesdays and Thursdays for my experiments, and for the past two weeks, no one has shown up. [01:10:23] Don't I keep my end of the bargain, delivering a fresh corpse each night? I am no longer interested in corpses, Dr. Frankenstein. [01:10:36] I need fresh living blood. [01:10:42] We'll talk later. Igor, come back to the laboratory. [01:10:49] That's a good idea. Let's get at Luke. Well, what are you afraid of, Gabby Mansoor? Dracula couldn't get anything out of your veins but a cheap alcoholic high. [01:11:04] He's bigger than you and uglier, too. Well, I'll be. You know, Gabby, I think that creature is made from the parts of dead men. Absolutely correct, my friend. Are you doing worse, Karloff, or are we in deep trouble? [01:11:20] The party's just beginning, gentlemen. [01:11:24] Oh, and by the way, your horses had a most unfortunate accident. [01:11:31] The. Their throats were ripped out and carcasses devoured. [01:11:37] To the uneducated eye, it looks like the work of a pack of wild wolves. [01:11:45] Well, we were educated. [01:11:48] Them was werewolves. [01:11:51] You did that dirty deed. You think we didn't see that full moon when we Came inside. [01:12:00] Come, let us join the other guests in the laboratory. [01:12:12] And now, gentlemen, I'm going to perform my greatest experiment. [01:12:18] Junius. Creature needs a brain. [01:12:22] Strap them to the table, Eagle. [01:12:25] Yes, master. [01:12:28] And now, Eagle, the electress. [01:12:35] You have the tall cowboy. [01:12:39] You have the rare opportunity of donating your brain to fire. Oh, hold on a minute, Monsoor. If you're looking for a mind and perfect condition, why don't you take Gabby's? It's hardly ever been used. Why, you dirty side winder. [01:12:58] How come you always play the good guy in all your movies? That's because I got a better agent than you, fuzzbag. I'm sorry to interrupt you gentlemen, but you are all my prisoners. Renfield, bind Dr. Frankenstein to the table with his friend. [01:13:22] Do you know what I am going to do to you now? [01:13:30] You don't trust him, Duke. [01:13:35] Stop it, B. [01:13:37] I can't stand the pain that I. [01:13:50] Well, Dr. Frank is dead in the doornail group, Master. It's time. [01:13:59] The sun is rising. It's time to return to your coffin. Quickly, Enfield, pull down the curtain. Doesn't look to me like he's gonna make it, Gabby. [01:14:12] Here comes the sun right through the window. And those rays are shining right on old Dracula's fang. Master. Master, forgive me. [01:14:25] To be dead, to be really dead, must be glow reality while he's crumbling in the cookie dust right before our eyes. Gabby, see if you can con old Renfield into setting us free. [01:14:45] O prayer and field. [01:14:48] You ain't such a bad sort. Why didn't you from the moment I laid eyes on you? [01:14:55] Yeah. You know what I got outside my old saddlebag? [01:15:01] No, Gabby. What? [01:15:05] Well, I got a bag full of the juiciest spiders and flies you ever seed. [01:15:11] Enough to set you up for the rest of your unnatural life. [01:15:17] This won't be too long if. Hey, spider flies. [01:15:26] Yes, I'll do it. Now, don't talk, you little buckaroo. Just untie us now. I say, Renfield, do you suppose you could give us our guns back? Yes. Here. [01:15:41] Oh, Gabby, will you be my new master? [01:15:48] Sorry about that. [01:15:51] I just didn't have that. Go to your relationship in mind. Good shot, Gabby. You got it right in his third eye. Well, I guess this little Halloween soiree has gone to a close. [01:16:05] Now, wait a minute, Duke. Hold on there. Here comes that creature that Junior made. [01:16:18] Well, let's ventilate this reptile. Gabby, open up. [01:16:30] And even slowed him down. Oh, there's only one thing to do. I saw a movie where the monster got hot and bothered the way he is now, Igor played his flute to sue the savage beast. You better grab that flute and start tooting. [01:17:05] Why, the creature's as mellow as a zombie in the daylight. [01:17:11] What do you say, partner? Let's get on that stagecoach outside and see if we can find the rest of the herd. Well, our work's just about finished here, Duke. Right on, Gabby. What do you say, partner? Well, I'm ready to ride shotgun. You know, you handle that situation like an old pro. We almost got caught in the clutches of a vampire and a hunchback dwarf. It was the spookiest Halloween party I ever seed. [01:17:46] Yeah. Thinking as long as you're driving and I'm just a riding chuck in. Well, I. What? Do you suppose I could hold on to that bottle of Thunderbird wine? Why, you old gold skinner, you. Here, have your Thunderbird and a happy Halloween as well. [01:18:08] Sure again. Thank you. I believe it, old guy. [01:18:31] There may be something behind you. [01:18:45] No, no. Stay where you are. [01:18:49] Do not break the stillness of this moment. [01:18:53] For this is a time of mystery. [01:18:56] A time when imagination is free and moves forward swiftly, silently. [01:19:08] This is the haunting hour. [01:19:31] Shoe fit. [01:19:43] It is early Sunday morning in the home of Mr. And Mrs. Destos. Mr. Destos is dressing hurriedly while his wife prepares breakfast. [01:19:54] Suddenly he calls to her. Helena. Helena. Gregory, please do not call like that. Come here to the kitchen. Helena, I cannot find my charm. Did you see it? How many times will I tell you, Gregory, On Sunday morning people want to sleep a little. They do not want to hear other of people screaming. Don't you hear? I have lost my lucky piece. Helena. Oh, you mean the little coin that you brought to America from Greece? Yes. Here are your eggs. Yes, yes, but where is it? I have not seen it. Perhaps you lost. No, I must find it. It has brought me all the good luck we have had here and I can never replace it. It's the only one of its kind. You should not have been so careless. That is the remark of a fool. Never mind with you, I'll find it myself. [01:20:37] Gregory. It's the first time since we were married. Three years ago you speak to me like that. Oh, well, forgive me, Helena. I did not mean that. It is just that the little coin means so much to me and I'm in such a hurry I don't know what I am saying. [01:20:57] Are you going to be shop again this Sunday? No, I must. There is so much to be done. I am making more serious now than ever before. And it is important that I build up our little business and Put away some money in case of need. You will need it for doctor bills, Gregory, if you work like this day and night and Sundays as well, the man must have his rest. You know how we say, Helena, never cross your luck. I am now getting the finest clientele in this city. They cannot wait for the shoes. The orders must be filled. And I work alone. [01:21:35] What good is all the money if I never see you? Well, that question you will have to ask Mr. Bolit. Mr. Bollet, you mean? Yes, yes, Elena, I mean the richest, most important man in the city. I told you already, I was working for his assistant, Mr. McIntyre. Mr. McIntyre, I have is not Mr. Bullitt's assistant, but his bodyguard. So what is the difference? He promised he would get me the business of Mr. Bullitt, and he did. You mean you have seen Mr. Bullitt? Sure, many times. Oh, in fact, I am already making suits for his whole family. [01:22:15] Tell me, Gregory, why does a man like Mr. Bullitt need a bodyguard like Mr. McIntyre? Oh, what do I know, Helena? You know what it is with big important men. They must be careful. [01:22:31] And now I must go. When will you be home, Gregory? I. I don't know, Helena. We will have to see. Goodbye. Goodbye, Gregory. [01:22:55] Mr. Destis live here? Yes. Is he home? Could I ask please, your name? I'm Mr. Bullet. Oh, Mr. Bullet. Oh, come in, please, come in. McIntyre. Right. Where's your husband, Mrs. Deses? He is not home. [01:23:14] You're lying. I do not lie. Just a minute, McIntyre. Where is your husband, Mrs. Destis? I do not know, I tell you. She's covering up, boss. Let me go through the house. Just a minute, Mrs. Destis. Do you recognize this coin? [01:23:31] Oh, it is my husband's good luck piece. But where did you get it? Told you it belonged to him, boss. That's all I want to hear. You know what to do, McIntyre. Don't worry, I'll take care of him. What is wrong? What has my husband done? Don't worry, he won't do it again. And don't forget, McIntyre, if you don't find him before the day's over, there'll be a new man in your place tomorrow. I told you not to worry, boys. I'll be waiting to hear from you. Don't make it too long. [01:24:00] We might as well go inside and sit down, Mrs. Destis. What? What are you going to do? I'm going to wait for your husband. I mean after he gets here. Well, don't you worry about that. [01:24:15] Whatever I do, you should be glad I did it. I do not understand all right, you want to know what's up? I'll tell you. [01:24:24] That husband of yours is a no good two timing double crosser. Now do you understand? No. He's running around with other women, Craig Woody with other women. That ain't all. If he wants to run around with other women, that's his own business. [01:24:38] But when he starts fooling around with the boats. Daughter, that's going too far. My husband is going with Mr. Bolit's daughter. Mm. An 18 year old kid. Oh, no. But it is impossible. Gregory work all the time. In the night and in the day. How could he be able to go with anybody? All depends what kind of work he's doing at night. Could be working at having a good time, you know. But he's doing what you say. Why shouldn't he tell me? He's not afraid. Maybe he's not afraid of you. But there's other people. [01:25:15] We don't like anybody stepping in where they don't belong. See what I mean? Yes. [01:25:20] Nothing is more important to Bollock than his daughter Marian. [01:25:23] There's nothing too good for her. And he didn't set her up like this for some little jerk shoemaker to cash in on everything. But Gregory is my husband. How could he do that's? Just what makes it so tough. [01:25:37] You see, whatever he's gonna get, he's got it coming to him. [01:25:42] How did you find out all this? From that lucky coin he carries around. Oh. Only this time it ain't so lucky. You knew it, was he? Mm. He showed it to me. Told me there was another one like it in the country. [01:25:54] Naturally, when Violet found it on his daughter's dressing table, it was a dead giveaway. Oh, I see. [01:26:04] Now, there's no reason why you should take a beating for this, Mrs. Distance certainly ain't your fault. [01:26:10] And I ain't getting any kick out of telling you. For your own good, you might as well know what's happening. [01:26:15] Thank you. Where you going? I do not feel very good. I'm going out in three possibilities. [01:26:34] All right, all right, I'm coming. [01:26:41] Have you no patience to. Helena, Is something wrong? Close the door. Yes, but you. [01:26:49] Now what is it, Helena? You are so pale. Mr. Bullitt is looking for you. He came to our house. Oh, what did he want? He came with his assistant, Mr. McIntyre. [01:27:04] They have found out that you are going out with Mr. Bolit's daughter. Me? [01:27:10] I am going out with. Please, Gregory. There is no need to try and hide it from me any longer. I know. Oh, you are fooling First I thought they were fooling. Then they showed me the lucky coin you had lost. [01:27:26] Mr. Wallet's daughter had it. What you are saying, Elena, is a strange matter. [01:27:34] I have come to warn you. [01:27:36] Beyond that, I have no further duty. [01:27:41] You had better not come home. Mr. McIntyre is waiting there for you. Mr. McIntyre. [01:27:48] Oh, but then I should go to the police. They cannot do such things in America. What would you tell the police? Do you think they would like to hear our married man is going with a single girl? Helena, you do not believe that, do you? Mr. Bull, it is not so much a fool as I. [01:28:04] I thought you were working. But Helene. No. There is nothing for me outside of my work. And you? [01:28:12] I swear, Helen, I have never even seen the girl. I do not even know what she looks like. Told me this morning. You told me you were making shoes for all of Mr. Bullitt's family. Yes, yes, that is true. But for the daughter. I have been getting the measurements from an old A pair of shoes. Oh, sure. That is why Mr. Bullitt has been so pleased with my work. He says there is nobody but me who makes custom shoes to fit so perfect by just looking at an old pair. [01:28:40] Perhaps it is true. [01:28:43] Would you believe them before me, Helena? [01:28:47] I do not know. [01:28:49] It is something we do not see that is behind this. [01:28:53] But that does not matter now. It matters only that you believe me. Oh, we have gone through so much together, Elena. How could you think that I would do such a thing to you? There is the coin. How did the girl happen to have it? That is what I must find out. And I must get it back. No, Gregory, you cannot do that. You must forget about it. But why? It is mine and it has brought me luck. No, no. You have not seen the face of Mr. McIntyre. [01:29:22] I have seen that kind of face before. [01:29:25] I know what he has in his mind, and it is not good. But what am I to do, Helena? I cannot go away and leave you. You must, Gregory. You cannot even come home. You must leave right away. Then when you find a place, you will write to me and I will follow. How do I know what. [01:29:45] What they will do to you if I leave? Oh, I. I will be all right. [01:29:51] Then, if you say so, I will go. Helena, listen. Here is all the money I have with me. You will go right from here to the railroad station. I did not think that here in America we would have to. [01:30:09] Goodbye, my Helen. [01:30:13] Hurry. There is not much. Mr. McIntyre. Do not say anything. [01:30:19] Just going out for a little walk, huh? Mrs. Justice led me right to him. What do you want Mr. McIntyre? I'll tell you later. Get your hat and coat. No, you cannot take him. No. Maybe this will convince you that I can. You're going to kill him. No, I. [01:30:35] You must not try to do anything. [01:30:38] You cannot fight a revolver. Now you're being smart, Justice. Let's go. Get into that car outside. [01:30:44] Goodbye, Helena. [01:30:46] Don't worry. [01:30:50] Gregory. [01:30:51] Oh, my Gregory. [01:31:16] Gregory Destos, a custom shoemaker, has become strangely involved with the young daughter of the wealthy and unscrupulous Henry Bollet. And though Destus has denied any knowledge of the affair to his wife, he is forced to the point of a revolver to go off in the custody of Mullet's so called Bodyguard McIntyre, who has been assigned to take care of Destus. [01:31:40] Now, after walking the streets aimlessly, thinking of something to do, Mrs. Destus returns home. [01:31:49] Gregory, what have you done? How did you get back here? I have done nothing, Elena. Mr. McIntyre brought me here. But why did he do that? I thought. Listen to me. He too believes that I have been seeing Mr. Bullitt's daughter. And as a favor to me, Mr. McIntyre will give us time to leave the city. But we must never come back. [01:32:10] I do not understand it. I do not think he likes Mr. Bullitt very much. But even so, why should he let me go? What reason did he give? He said it was because. Well, because I made him the most perfect shoes he ever wore. So that is your reward? To go away and never come back? He says that if Mr. Bullet ever finds out that I am here, it will be the end for all of us. But if Mr. McIntyre is such a good friend, Gregory, why was he the one to tell Mr. Bullet that you were seeing the daughter? He told Mr. Bullet? Yes. When Mr. Bullet found the lucky charm in his daughter's room, it was Mr. McIntyre who told him it belonged to you. Oh, I don't understand. Gregory. It is clear that. [01:32:57] Who is that? I will answer it. Gregory. There is no use to hide anymore, Elena. It has to be this way. [01:33:05] Are you Mr. Destis? Yes. Well, here's part of what you deserve. Oh. Why did you heat him? That's only the beginning. Get up from the floor, Destis. No, don't. Why not? It's coming home, isn't it? But that's the wrong man. That isn't the one. Oh. Oh, gosh. Oh, here, let me help you up. Has everyone gone mad? Oh. You're Mrs. Justice, aren't you? Yes. I'm Marion Bolett. Oh, you are Mr. Bullet's daughter. Yes, and I'm terribly sorry for what Mr. Potter just did. You see, he's a friend of mine and he was just trying to help me. You see, I thought you were the one who had sent Ms. Bullet that note. Note? What note? The one in which you demanded $1,000. I demanded $1,000? No. You see, my father wants me to go out only with people he approves of. I know he wouldn't approve of Fred because Freddie isn't rich enough. So we haven't told dad that we go out together. But what has that got to do with my husband? Well, the other day I got a letter saying that if I didn't leave $1,000 at a certain place, the writer would tell my father all about me and Fred. And you thought I was the person who wrote that letter? Well, I went to the spot. It was five miles outside the city limits, behind the deserted Hamilton house, and I left $200 there with a note saying that I'd leave more today. Then I drove off at a distance and sat in my car watching. And you saw the men? Yes. Although I couldn't identify him from that distance, I do know that he was much bigger than you. But when he left, I went back to see if he'd found the money, and he had. All right. And while I was looking, I found a Greek coin that he dropped. So I put it in my purse and later left it in my bedroom where Father found it. That was when I first learned it belonged to you. Then why did you come here? I had to. I was going to give you the rest of the money to make sure you didn't talk to my father. But now I know you're not the man. So it was someone else who took away your lucky coin, Gregory, to make it look like you. Yes. Well, I'd sure like to lay my hands on him. I think I am beginning to see why Mr. McIntyre wants me to go away. Are you talking about my father's assistant? Yes. He wants my husband to leave the city. Your father thinks that Gregory is going out with you? Well, how would he get an idea like that? Mr. McIntyre advised him. Then do you think that. Why, of course. It's as clear as the nose on your face. But what can we do? Wait, wait. I have an idea. [01:35:16] Where did you say you left the $200, Ms. Bullitt? Behind the old deserted Hamilton house. You know where that is, don't you? Yes. Yes, it has been empty for many years now, has it not? At least five years. But how can that help us? What time is it now? It's six o'clock. Uh huh. It will be light for about one hour more. You mean you want to go out there tonight? Ms. Bullet, you said that you were bringing the money to me. Yes, I thought that you. Would you let me bring the money to the Hamilton house and place it there for you? You want us to go with you? If you will allow me, I would rather go alone. You mean you're going to wait there and see if you can catch him while it is light? I will wait. If it does not come, then I will go back to my shop and I will be working there all night. And what do you want us to do if you do not hear from me tonight? I would like you to take Ms. Bully to the Hamilton house tomorrow and see if the money is gone. If it is, I would like you to come to my store and tell me the first thing in the morning. All right. Here's the money and then we'll go along. Good night and thank you. Good night. Good night. [01:36:22] Are you sure you're doing the right thing, Gregory? Yes, Helena. Do you want me to stay here? [01:36:29] No, no, I want you to come with me. Oh, what can I do? There, you will see. [01:36:37] Come, Helena, come. [01:36:50] It is darkening. Quickly, Gregory. Yes, yes, I must work quickly. Here. [01:36:57] Here is the place where Miss Bullet must have put the money last time. Now we put this in the same place. Yeah, so? [01:37:04] And now you stay here, Helena. Here? Are we going to wait for him to come? No. But where are you going, Gregory? There is something I must find. What is it? It must be here. But why must I stay here? Because I do not want you to. [01:37:23] Uh huh. Yes, I found it. The man has left something he didn't know about. Come here, Helena. [01:37:30] What have you found? It had to be here. Look. Look. Do you see what I mean? [01:37:37] Oh, yes, Gregory, I see what you mean. As soon as I have it, we will go back to the shop. I will be working all night, Elena. All night. [01:37:54] So, what did you think of this one? A bit of a trick. And an extra special treat if you ask me. For those who've continued their support. Thank you. And for those wanting to check out the links below. We miss you, big guy. But the vault is a generous one. And we are just so darn thankful. Let's close said vault and this time leave the world a little scarier than we found it. Four Bob Cahill Pirates and Privateers Macabre Movie Makers Fingers in the pie Leading to Sticky Fingers My birthplace. Salem, Massachusetts. The Isle of Shoals. Buried treasure Blackbeard Captain Kidd, Pirate Banks, the Queen Anne's Revenge, Unsolved Mysteries, Tom Hubble, the Widow, the Lynn woods and Dungeon Rock, the Marble Boys, the Tunnel, Ye Old Saugus Ironworks, the Pirate Tower, the Sierra Club, Citizens for Lynnwoods, Paul Bruce the Salem Pirate Museum, the Blue Anchor Tavern, Pickering Wharf Myths and Monsters, Witch Village, Peabody Essex Museum, the Witch Dungeon, the House of Seven Gables, the Scarlet Letter, Nathaniel Hawthorne Chandler Smith Publishing House Ghostly Voices from Beyond, Brian the Monk, the Early Sites Research Society in Rowley, Massachusetts Old Time Radio Theater, WJUL Chimney Heads, the Singing Dog, that Mean Green Mother from Outer Space, Gabby and the Duke, Count Dracula Laboratories, Igor and His Tutti Flute, Little Buckaroos, Renfield Gregory and Helena Destis Cliffhangers, Ed Leclair and the man whom for 50 plus years was Boston radio's own treasure, Captain Norm Nathan. I'm your podcast Privateer, Tony Nesbit that was no Martian. It's Halloween.